Would Euro states be better off if they split into smaller pieces?

[sriracha]

We see these days how Catalonia and the Basque land are successfully strong handing Spain into letting them “almost” secede, by allowing the Spanish socialist party into power as a concession.

On the one hand, the socialist will turn Spain into an even worse tax hell than it is today, so it would be preferable to have the Partido Popular in power, which would keep taxes as they are or maybe very slightly lower them (I don't think the European Union would allow Spain much freedom that way).

On a second thought”¦if Europe split into tens of micro states (Catalonia, Basque Country, Lombardy, Flanders”¦) each of these states would have much more freedom to lighten taxes for its residents, so basically we would end up with many small “Switzerlands” and what's left of the big countries would be a hell of immigrants, communists, Gypsies etc, basically like Paris today.

 

[void]

more freedom, less state, more individual responsibility, less central planning,... brings better EXPECTED VALUE for an individual

no need to spend time on thinking how to improve states - rules one doesn't voluntarily accept are violence, cause draining of resources that would be allocated differently and result in energetic disbalance that will correct itself eventually

Last edited: Sep 5, 2023

 

[Martin Everson]

sriracha said:
On a second thought”¦if Europe split into tens of micro states (Catalonia, Basque Country, Lombardy, Flanders”¦) each of these states would have much more freedom to lighten taxes for its residents, so basically we would end up with many small “Switzerlands” and what's left of the big countries would be a hell of immigrants, communists, Gypsies etc, basically like Paris today.
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Europe would be at war again if this happened. Only good thing EU did was bring countries together and prevent war and German jackboots stomping all over Europe again.

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[jafo]

I personally prefer the Europe/currencies pre-Euro. Much better profit. Better arbitrage etc etc. Made so much money then. I miss those days

 

[Cavaliere]

void said:
more freedom, less state, more individual responsibility, less central planning,... brings better EXPECTED VALUE for an individual

no need to spend time on thinking how to improve states - rules one doesn't voluntarily accept are violence, cause draining of resources that would be allocated differently and result in energetic disbalance that will correct itself eventually
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Well said

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Martin Everson said:
Europe would be at war again if this happened. Only good thing EU did was bring countries together and prevent war and German jackboots stomping all over Europe again.
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Bigger states mean bigger wars.
The apex of European civilization was the Renaissance, when the concept of centralized state didn't exist (it was fully developed in the XIX century).
The process of centralization brought slavery, diseases, war, poverty. Nazism, communism and world wars were inevitable consequences of the development of the central state.
Today people are fed by the central state with the illusion of freedom and democracy, manipulated into divisive social conflicts while those in power laugh and enrich. Mala tempora currunt.

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[Cavaliere]

JohnnyDoe said:
Bigger states mean bigger wars.
The apex of European civilization was the Renaissance, when the concept of centralized state didn't exist (it was fully developed in the XIX century).
The process of centralization brought slavery, diseases, war, poverty. Nazism, communism and world wars were inevitable consequences of the development of the central state.
Today people are fed by the central state with the illusion of freedom and democracy, manipulated into divisive social conflicts while those in power laugh and enrich. Mala tempora currunt.
Click to expand...

This is a very interesting view, I wonder though how you factor in the fact that that the Italian peninsula was in what was essentially a permanent state of war? Admittedly this was due to bigger states fighting bigger wars about the smaller states in Italy.

 

[BarleyMalt]

Martin Everson said:
Europe would be at war again if this happened. Only good thing EU did was bring countries together and prevent war and German jackboots stomping all over Europe again.
Click to expand...

Westphalia peace, leading to the split of Germany, lead to a peaceful century and a thriving cutural and economical development of Europe. Currently, the risk of war in the EU is much higher due to the Union being a puppet of the jingoistic US. The increased sovereignty and power also gives the UE a much larger repressive power over its population, leading to an increased risk of civil war and unrest.

Also, centralization prevents local innovation. At first, you see efficiency gains, but those start to degrade as the system becomes heavier and heavier and hard to reform. Meanwhile, smaller states are quicker to adapt to change, and large empires start to leak wealth and talent to those. UAE, Switzerland or Singapore are good examples of this.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Cavaliere said:
This is a very interesting view, I wonder though how you factor in the fact that that the Italian peninsula was in what was essentially a permanent state of war? Admittedly this was due to bigger states fighting bigger wars about the smaller states in Italy.
Click to expand...

The small battles between nobles produced culture and prosperity. The central state produced death and poverty.
The entity you call Italy is purely artificial. It doesn't exist at social, cultural and linguistic levels.

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[JackAlabama]

sriracha said:
We see these days how Catalonia and the Basque land are successfully strong handing Spain into letting them “almost” secede, by allowing the Spanish socialist party into power as a concession.

On the one hand, the socialist will turn Spain into an even worse tax hell than it is today, so it would be preferable to have the Partido Popular in power, which would keep taxes as they are or maybe very slightly lower them (I don't think the European Union would allow Spain much freedom that way).

On a second thought”¦if Europe split into tens of micro states (Catalonia, Basque Country, Lombardy, Flanders”¦) each of these states would have much more freedom to lighten taxes for its residents, so basically we would end up with many small “Switzerlands” and what's left of the big countries would be a hell of immigrants, communists, Gypsies etc, basically like Paris today.
Click to expand...

Yah, europe must go back to city states or regional states resulting maybe in like 200-300 countries or so and tear down this massive bloated bureaucratic hellscape.
That would mean renaissance 2.0 for europe.

 

[BarleyMalt]

JohnnyDoe said:
The small battles between nobles produced culture and prosperity. The central state produced death and poverty.
The entity you call Italy is purely artificial. It doesn't exist at social, cultural and linguistic levels.
Click to expand...

Indeed, having an Italian tell you "I've been living here for 20 years, but really... I'm from Milano!" is common experience.

 

[Martin Everson]

BarleyMalt said:
Westphalia peace, leading to the split of Germany, lead to a peaceful century and a thriving cutural and economical development of Europe. Currently, the risk of war in the EU is much higher due to the Union being a puppet of the jingoistic US. The increased sovereignty and power also gives the UE a much larger repressive power over its population, leading to an increased risk of civil war and unrest.
Click to expand...

When you say risk of war in EU do you mean between EU states and in which case which ones or do you mean civil war? I mean Germany is a US vessel puppet state of US. It has over 38,000 US troops on its soil and cannot make any geopolitical decisions without consulting US. It does what US tells it to do even when its against its own interest and that of its businesses and population.

In any case I am not concerned about i.e as I am not from there and don't live there and don't have any investments there any longer either 😀. I am preparing for the future.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.