Is using a fake ID for non-fraud purposes (security reasons) legal?

[OKboomer]

If a quick Google about someone can reveal they are a wealthy person, it creates a security/safety risk. In Hotels for example you are obliged to present your ID. Theoretically, the front desk person could pass your name to someone else and you may become a target.

The question is, if one presents a fake ID for check-in at the hotel, does that constitute a crime? (So I guess it's mere possession and use without intent to defraud)

If the police search you and find a real ID and fake ID with different names, is that in itself a crime? Again, this is explored purely from personal safety/ security perspective only.

 

[mraleph]

OKboomer said:
If a quick Google about someone can reveal they are a wealthy person, it creates a security/safety risk. In Hotels for example you are obliged to present your ID. Theoretically, the front desk person could pass your name to someone else and you may become a target.

The question is, if one presents a fake ID for check-in at the hotel, does that constitute a crime? (So I guess it's mere possession and use without intent to defraud)

If the police search you and find a real ID and fake ID with different names, is that in itself a crime? Again, this is explored purely from personal safety/ security perspective only.
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Discussing on an academic grounds related to OPSEC, what you describe is a legend.

It's an identity with associated entries into relevant registries - birth & mariage, residence, personal identification string or number, tax number etc. - and with issued documents - having their own serial and identification numbers. Beside primary points, that identity should have been educated and had an access to public health system. And much more. Those entries and their coherence is what we call a depth of the legend.

The depth of a legend defines should you be present in the country of nominal citizenship and residence or should you be overseas.

Different automatic financial reporting mechanisms created a chaotic environment - multiple failure points - related to having a legend - due to citizenship, residence and tax residence. You may fail, not being aware that you failed and being investigated at best for money laundering and predicate offences - and at worst, for espionage.

When a routine check on an airport, train station, street or road control is performed, sometimes you may pass that check if your legend doesn't have proper depth - if that identity and particular document isn't associated with any investigation or if checking officers aren't permited to have a feedback from databases.

From legal perspective, making, holding or using document with false content is a crime per se if not used as an instrument for a complex and serious ones.

You may legally change your name in Vanuatu during CBI program. Or, after you receive the citizenship of any other country, change the name a posteriori.

Not many people outside of governments today can perform legend creation. Beside production quality, there are so many points that are failure prone.

In majority of cases, people that obtain false documents are getting either cloned identity or entirely invented ones. That comes with another risk as all lost and stollen passporta are entered into INTERPOL SLTD database and queried during checks - also in AML compliance cases.

 

[OKboomer]

Thanks for the detailed response @mraleph . It is clear that using it elsewhere would run you into a trouble. I guess I am curious purely about a specific use of showing that ID in hotels when checking in. In some countries front desk workers have been known to tip off robbers when a wealthy person checked in (not flashing wealth, but just they googled and found out the person is rich) and then it sometimes led to dangerous and unpleasant situations. To my understanding beyond just making a photocopy of your ID they don't really do much with your ID, though in some corporate hotel chains I have seen them swipe the machine readable Part of ID in an airport-like equipment, which I imagine could cause problems....

 

[mraleph]

OKboomer said:
Thanks for the detailed response @mraleph . It is clear that using it elsewhere would run you into a trouble. I guess I am curious purely about a specific use of showing that ID in hotels when checking in. In some countries front desk workers have been known to tip off robbers when a wealthy person checked in (not flashing wealth, but just they googled and found out the person is rich) and then it sometimes led to dangerous and unpleasant situations. To my understanding beyond just making a photocopy of your ID they don't really do much with your ID, though in some corporate hotel chains I have seen them swipe the machine readable Part of ID in an airport-like equipment, which I imagine could cause problems....
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I'll reply for academic reasons.

Every hotel check-in in any country requires that a guest is identified and that a competent authority is notified about guest's stay. All guests - domestic and foreign - are routinely being checked against internal and INTERPOL/EUROPOL and other international databases.

Your idea is simply not sound. You would compromise yourself for certain legal and reputational consequences.

You would need to obtain a proper legend with a depth and be issued documents in order to exist with different identities. To the best of my knowledge, only country that can issue such a documents is State of Israel - a Jewish person coming on oleh visa can chose a hebrew name during imigration procedure (A'aliyah). But, even with two different legal documents, any international travel would be a risk due to same biometric identity.

 

[OKboomer]

Thanks @mraleph makes sense

 

[Forester]

🙂 Just a small amendment.

mraleph said:
Every hotel check-in in any country requires that a guest is identified and that a competent authority is notified about guest's stay. All guests - domestic and foreign - are routinely being checked against internal and INTERPOL/EUROPOL and other international databases.
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Fortunately, the abovestated is not universally valid ”“ TBMK (with all due respect). There are still (hopefully) places at the world where you are not even asked for some ID before you can go to your bed. E.g., if you come to a motel in the middle of nowhere in Redneck County, TX, USA, you will be still (I hope) asked just for some cash ”“ after the owner came to the conclusion that you were looking fine (otherwise you will be told to drive away). Similarly for some lodge in Central Asian mountains. Or even for some chalet in some minor valley of Italian Alps, I guess. Etc.
But I understand (hopefully 😉 ) what you had in mind.

mraleph said:
From legal perspective, making, holding or using document with false content is a crime per se if not used as an instrument for a complex and serious ones.
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This really depends on the jurisdiction ”“ as any legal matter. (Laws are not uniform across the world, really not 🙂 ). E.g., just holding such a document is not even a misdemeanor in any reasonable US state; but it can direct you to a very long-time jail sentence in DPRK, I guess.

OKboomer said:
Thanks for the detailed response @mraleph . It is clear that using it elsewhere would run you into a trouble. I guess I am curious purely about a specific use of showing that ID in hotels when checking in. In some countries front desk workers have been known to tip off robbers when a wealthy person checked in (not flashing wealth, but just they googled and found out the person is rich) and then it sometimes led to dangerous and unpleasant situations. To my understanding beyond just making a photocopy of your ID they don't really do much with your ID, though in some corporate hotel chains I have seen them swipe the machine readable Part of ID in an airport-like equipment, which I imagine could cause problems....
Click to expand...

BTW, I would be probably more careful e.g. about the credit card than about the ID. If your name is not Elon Musk or similar, you can eventually be endangered after some searching that can be non-trivial, if you care about elementary security measures in the cyberspace. But if someone proudly presents his Golden Visa or AmEx in some small hotel in some “a 3rd world” city, then he is a moron.

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I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

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[mraleph]

Forester said:
🙂 Just a small amendment.

Fortunately, the abovestated is not universally valid ”“ TBMK (with all due respect). There are still (hopefully) places at the world where you are not even asked for some ID before you can go to your bed. E.g., if you come to a motel in the middle of nowhere in Redneck County, TX, USA, you will be still (I hope) asked just for some cash ”“ after the owner came to the conclusion that you were looking fine (otherwise you will be told to drive away). Similarly for some lodge in Central Asian mountains. Or even for some chalet in some minor valley of Italian Alps, I guess. Etc.
But I understand (hopefully 😉 ) what you had in mind.



This really depends on the jurisdiction ”“ as any legal matter. (Laws are not uniform across the world, really not 🙂 ). E.g., just holding such a document is not even a misdemeanor in any reasonable US state; but it can direct you to a very long-time jail sentence in DPRK, I guess.


BTW, I would be probably more careful e.g. about the credit card than about the ID. If your name is not Elon Musk or similar, you can eventually be endangered after some searching that can be non-trivial, if you care about elementary security measures in the cyberspace. But if someone proudly presents his Golden Visa or AmEx in some small hotel in some “a 3rd world” city, then he is a moron.
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From personal experience, I may write that certain hotels at certain cities do not require any identity or travel document nor register the guest - with a service above incognito mode. The payment is whatever the guest chooses. However, that is different matrix than the one we are discussing here.

Completely agree about relativity in legal matters fin4774"

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Forester said:
This really depends on the jurisdiction ”“ as any legal matter. (Laws are not uniform across the world, really not 🙂 ). E.g., just holding such a document is not even a misdemeanor in any reasonable US state; but it can direct you to a very long-time jail sentence in DPRK, I guess.
Click to expand...

Correct. Don't forget the concepts of mens rea and necessitas non habet legem, and that everything can happen in a court.

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[jorge]

OKboomer said:
If a quick Google about someone can reveal they are a wealthy person, it creates a security/safety risk. In Hotels for example you are obliged to present your ID. Theoretically, the front desk person could pass your name to someone else and you may become a target.

The question is, if one presents a fake ID for check-in at the hotel, does that constitute a crime? (So I guess it's mere possession and use without intent to defraud)

If the police search you and find a real ID and fake ID with different names, is that in itself a crime? Again, this is explored purely from personal safety/ security perspective only.
Click to expand...

The risk must be very limited if you're using a fake ID solely for the purpose of checking into a hotel. Who would notice in day-to-day life? I'm well aware that there could be that one time in your entire life when 1,000 things happen to expose it... but otherwise, I think the risk is very low.

 

[EliasIT]

I guess yes if you pay the bill no risk at all.

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