Incorporation for non KYC

[Forester]

Yes, worth checking, IMO. Also Liechtenstein and‌ Iceland, if we talk about Europe.
In LatAm, perhaps Paraguay also worth checking. It's – officially – a crypto-friendly⁣ country, too.

Are you sure? (But it's OT a little.)
No doubts, naturally.

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

Happening as‌ we speak in EU: How & Why the EU Can Confiscate Your Wealth If You‍ Can’t Explain It.

 

[Forester]

Yes, of course; if‍ we speak about EU then it is totally clear. I've taken @Marshal 's statement as⁠ general...

 

[JackAlabama]

banks there are not crypto friendly at all. So this needs to⁠ be dealt with.

 

[Forester]

Yes, I agree; in general, banking there sucks remarkably. The‍ financial flows IMO should be split in such a case, crypto being solved separately...

 

[mraleph]

Another entity in differently regulated︃ environment - Vanuatu etc. may receive the payments for defined service and US entity may︄ issue the aggregate invoice for the IaaS to deregulated entity. No WHT in Vanuatu, but︅ it's not the only option.

Where is your infrastructure located? Is it yours or leased︆ or rented? What denomination you print on invoices towards end users and what currency you︇ receive from crypto exchange?

 

[slade991]

It seems singapore allow to do accounting with receipt. And those don't require any customer‌ information.
So it seems that would probably be our best / affordable option at the‍ moment.
Any crypto friendly bank in SG ?

We are renting atm. Infrastructure⁣ is in NA and Europe. We invoice in euros and receive us dollars ( us⁢ LLC entity). But if the law pass, we'll probably have to shut down our US︀ servers offering.

 

[daniels27]

Even Walmart in the US does accounting with receipt.⁠ I think you can do this business anywhere in Europe and beyond.

 

[slade991]

Issue is US might pass a‍ law to require IAAS to gather KYC for customer as i linked earlier.

 

[daniels27]

Yes I know. Then just use‍ any other is the 200 countries. Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Singapore, BVI etc. They can all handle⁠ it.

 

[mraleph]

No you wont need to shut down the US infrastructure.⁢ Conclude the IaaS contract between US entity and a new entity in preferable jurisdiction which︀ will be used for payments.

US entity will provide IaaS to KYCed entity and you'll︁ be compliant.

Defined services offered by new entity as something different than you did with︂ US entity.

 

[slade991]

Thing is that law apply to US server as well not only to US entity.‌ Even for reseller.
So even if technically a KYCed entity is renting the servers, this‍ entity will resell the server as VPS to customers which will need to be KYCed⁠ as well. Except if lying and saying the servers are not resold which is a⁤ whole different can of worms and pretty easy to prove against.

 

[sebastian]

In that case, make sure you get generated invoices for each customer and money can⁠ be followed. You get lot's of troubles otherwise. No kidding with the n**i tax office,⁤ they will hunt you like brutal dogs.

 

[daniels27]

You mean the ones from Ukraine Putin keeps talking about? I‍ would not believe this sh1t. Or you mean the ones from AfD that the German⁠ idiots in the government keep telling about? Not much more credible either.

I think the⁤ rules are about similar in each country. You need a bank/crypto statement with incoming payments⁣ and matching invoices. Also like in all countries, the invoice can be without any personal⁢ information (some people tend to call it receipt although most jurisdictions only have one legal︀ term for either document).

 

[Forester]

This is going quite off-topic, so please do not go︀ much further on.

Just a small remark: Per my own experience, these rules really differ︁ a lot around the world. Somewhere/sometimes you do not need any invoices at all and︂ somewhere/sometimes you must have a personal information on every invoice, at least above some amount︃ like ~500 USD or so.

 

[mraleph]

I haven't proposed retail model. Read the written again.

KYC as AML/CTF procedure is⁢ standard in all service models, including IaaS in almost every jurisdiction in the West.

Part of my portfolio includes IaaS in US, Switzerland, UK, Netherlands, Germany and Singapore where our︀ operating companies have racks, cages and suites as well as antenna rooftop space with our︁ equipment. Those companies lease resources to contractual parties against which we performed due diligence, hence︂ we are compliant towards authorities, including US.

Those parties have access and usage rights of︃ our resources and they can create whatever they want - creating FX virtual instances, switches︄ with virtual IX access and IP transit, computational nodes, Storage-as-a-service, PTP and NTP stratum 1︅ time-as-a-service etc. - excluding obviously forbidden stuff.

The business and financial anonimity and privacy doesn't come in the︋ same basket with legitimacy. A lot of things can be anticipated so you should not︌ build a business model against the regulatory ones. You can make an overlay, but I︍ suppose that discussion is for Gold group.

 

[JohnLocke]

From personal experience⁤ you better have the customers name and details on each invoice. If the tax office⁣ is going crazy they will tell you these invoices are not real but fake and⁢ you get taxed personally on the total amount of each invoice.

 

[daniels27]

I think at least︀ some of the rules pertain to claiming back VAT. But that brings us to another︁ problem. How do you account for VAT if you do not know where the people︂ live?

BTW: See this example for Mullvad VPN from Sweden:
https://www.collegesidekick.com/study-docs/2610691
Seems at least they︃ get off with such a generic invoice. Sounds quite interesting.

But maybe, you can also︄ ask your customers to enter a country and an address. The Google Address completer is︅ a real good tool in this case as it proposes fake addresses without the need︆ to look for them.

 

[JohnLocke]

That's why I see it's⁠ better to collect full customer details so you won't get troubles with the tax office.⁤

In our case the tax office had sufficient of time to lookup each address and see︀ that most of them were fake, not done by us but by the customers, so︁ it came back like a boomerang.

You really need to make some advance setup if︂ you want to avoid troubles with the tax offices in Europe.

 

[daniels27]

Yes, but his company is‍ the Mullvad VPN for hosting. He won't have any customers if he knows them.

Then, he should go to Switzerland or Liechtenstein, where they only get to see︀ the addresses when they are doing the government audit at your office. But it most︁ be possible. I mean Mullvad is big in Sweden and they are still operating.