Impossible statelessness good or bad?

[OffshoreMonero]

Okay, for people who were born in the USA you can renounce your citizenship without providing any proof that you have citizenship elsewhere. You can just drop it at any time. I envy you.

I was born in a country that signed onto that Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness treaty, so I don't have that option. If I renounce my citizenship I have to prove I have one elsewhere, and if I then renounce that one the country of my birth will step in and force me back into citizenship with them. There's no escape.

So here's my question:

They say "the true test of a free society is your ability to leave it" (a legal maxim I read years ago somewhere), yet they have roped me in without my permission.

These things were decided before I even existed. I didn't consent. How can any of this be morally good or justifiable?

Thoughts?

P.S. Moral discussion only. The whole "it's hard to live stateless" is another issue.

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[JohnnyDoe]

I agree. You could start a human rights case if you have a million $ or so to waste and a lot of free time. Otherwise, for much less just buy a second citizenship where this nonsense doesn't apply, renounce the first one and then the second.

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[BlackJack]

In my opinion you're just trying to figure out the picture looking at it from 1 inch.
Take the last G20 summit. What comes from it?
Nothing BUT the will, signed from EVERYONE, that will introduce new restrictions due to FUTURE pademics (they already know it will be, and will need a vaccine...).

So what is the end? You have to fight for you rights, even if someone's died ages, centuries ago, to "grant" those.
But elites keep trying to control crowds, time passes...history is a good teacher but with no students..

And what you can do?
You accept it, or not. Easy.
This seems someone who would follow the second path:

https://reclaimthenet.org/accine-passport-prevention-act/

Last edited: Nov 26, 2022

 

[OffshoreMonero]

JohnnyDoe said:
Otherwise, for much less just buy a second citizenship where this nonsense doesn't apply, renounce the first one and then the second.
Click to expand...

Sadly, this doesn't work. It has been tried before. 🙁

BlackJack said:
So what is the end? You have to fight for you rights, even if someone's died ages, centuries ago, to "grant" those.
But elites keep trying to control crowds, time passes...history is a good teacher but with no students..
Click to expand...

So you resist it and educate others? I guess that's all we have left.

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[Martin Everson]

OffshoreMonero said:
They say "the true test of a free society is your ability to leave it" (a legal maxim I read years ago somewhere), yet they have roped me in without my permission.

These things were decided before I even existed. I didn't consent. How can any of this be morally good or justifiable?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Sadly your stuck.

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[void]

if you don't intend to ever get back to your home country your "death" in foreign country could help you with little bit of creativity... 🙂
sounds crazy, but not far from considering becoming stateless
I'd start with another passport in a country that allows you to change your name.

 

[OffshoreMonero]

void said:
I'd start with another passport in a country that allows you to change your name.
Click to expand...

Funny, because I was looking into that a few years ago in Cyprus.

I wanted to get citizenship, renounce my birth citizenship, and then do a legal name change in Cyprus. That was as far as I had planned. I guess I could swim in shark-infested water and never return? lol

Unfortunately criminals ruined this for everyone. Anyone remember "The Cyprus Papers"? (Link posted below / interesting video included)

The Cyprus Papers

Martin Everson said:
Sadly your stuck.
Click to expand...

This is probably why I became an anarchist many years ago.

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[Summer King]

OffshoreMonero said:
Okay, for people who were born in the USA you can renounce your citizenship without providing any proof that you have citizenship elsewhere. You can just drop it at any time. I envy you.

I was born in a country that signed onto that Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness treaty, so I don't have that option. If I renounce my citizenship I have to prove I have one elsewhere, and if I then renounce that one the country of my birth will step in and force me back into citizenship with them. There's no escape.

So here's my question:

They say "the true test of a free society is your ability to leave it" (a legal maxim I read years ago somewhere), yet they have roped me in without my permission.

These things were decided before I even existed. I didn't consent. How can any of this be morally good or justifiable?

Thoughts?

P.S. Moral discussion only. The whole "it's hard to live stateless" is another issue.
Click to expand...

I've always wondered: why start a story, description or question with "okay, "?

 

[StuartG]

OffshoreMonero said:
Sadly, this doesn't work. It has been tried before.🙁



So you resist it and educate others? I guess that's all we have left.
Click to expand...

"sadly this doesn't work" - why not?

 

[OffshoreMonero]

Summer King said:
I've always wondered: why start a story, description or question with "okay, "?
Click to expand...

Okay, it's fun that way.

StuartG said:
"sadly this doesn't work" - why not?
Click to expand...

It has been attempted a few times in the past. The birthplace citizenship is eventually restored.

Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
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