Anonymous Safe Boxes

[Manolito]

Hello,

I'm looking for informations about anonymous safe boxes (i.e a vault you can rent, without giving any form of identification).

I've read there used to be a company in Vienna providing this service (Das Safe), but they seem to have stopped, or at least they don't advertise it on their website anymore..
I've found similar companies but all of them demand ID, although some accept to open a safe under a corporate entity, which could add a layer of privacy.. does anyone have experience with that ?

From my limited research, it seems to be pretty much impossible in Europe nowadays..
But there seems to be solutions in the US (oh the irony), not sure about Asia though (Singapore/Brunei maybe ?)

So, if anyone has a good provider to recommend, I'm all ears 🙂

 

[Martin Everson]

Manolito said:
I've read there used to be a company in Vienna providing this service (Das Safe), but they seem to have stopped, or at least they don't advertise it on their website anymore..
I've found similar companies but all of them demand ID, although some accept to open a safe under a corporate entity, which could add a layer of privacy.. does anyone have experience with that ?
Click to expand...

Yeah Das Safe anonymous nature ended some while ago due to pressure and pending EU regulation explained below.

Manolito said:
From my limited research, it seems to be pretty much impossible in Europe nowadays..
Click to expand...

The EU's 5th Money Laundering Directive came into force on 10 January 2020 requiring all EU countries to setup beneficial ownership registers for safe deposit boxes. Even with a corporate entity registering the box UBO registering is still required.

Manolito said:
But there seems to be solutions in the US (oh the irony), not sure about Asia though (Singapore/Brunei maybe ?)
Click to expand...

Singapore ask for ID in my personal experience with safety deposit boxes having traveled there myself. Brunei no idea and would not enter that place...lol. U.S I don't know but it would not surprise me but I would not consider anything I held in a private box over there to be safe.

Your best bet is any safe deposit box services in Freeports outside the EU and just give ID. If opened under a company also it won't be anonymous but it will be private enough for most purposes. You can look at a Singapore Freeport for example.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

So let's put it this way: you rent an anonymous box. Someone empties it. What do you do? How can you be anonymous when you rely on someone else?

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[Manolito]

Martin Everson said:
The EU's 5th Money Laundering Directive came into force on 10 January 2020 requiring all EU countries to setup beneficial ownership registers for safe deposit boxes. Even with a corporate entity registering the box UBO registering is still required.
Click to expand...

Very interesting read. Sad to see Switzerland which is outside of E.U. doesn't offer anonymity for all that..

Martin Everson said:
Your best bet is any safe deposit box services in Freeports outside the EU and just give ID. If opened under a company also it won't be anonymous but it will be private enough for most purposes. You can look at a Singapore Freeport for example.
Click to expand...

I've heard good things about Singapore freeport, thanks, I will look into it.

JohnnyDoe said:
So let's put it this way: you rent an anonymous box. Someone empties it. What do you do? How can you be anonymous when you rely on someone else?
Click to expand...

Well, you're anonymous in the sense that they don't have any informations about you, just like numbered accounts a long time ago.. If LEA sends them a request asking for the identity of safe XXX owner, they can't give anything, same if they ask if Mr. XXX owns a safe.
It's true someone can empty your safe if you're careless about your keys, your safe number, your password (there's usually this kind of 2nd layer of protection), but that would be like giving your wallet, your debit card pin, etc...

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Manolito said:
Very interesting read. Sad to see Switzerland which is outside of E.U. doesn't offer anonymity for all that..


I've heard good things about Singapore freeport, thanks, I will look into it.


Well, you're anonymous in the sense that they don't have any informations about you, just like numbered accounts a long time ago.. If LEA sends them a request asking for the identity of safe XXX owner, they can't give anything, same if they ask if Mr. XXX owns a safe.
It's true someone can empty your safe if you're careless about your keys, your safe number, your password (there's usually this kind of 2nd layer of protection), but that would be like giving your wallet, your debit card pin, etc...
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly, a safe deposit box, wether anonymous or not, is less safe than storing your valuables underground, in a truly anonymous hole that you dig yourself.

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[icecold]

In Switzerland you can find such boxes, just don't waste your time on BANKS - use the services that are not a bank and for that reason don't get regulated.

Such boxes are used by thousands of foreigners to store their black money, gold and other assets securely.

 

[Martin Everson]

Problem is the Swiss rollover like sausages on a grill. I don't see them defending non-residents using safety deposit boxes if a legal request is received from EU or US. They couldn't even defend Swiss banking secrecy as I have discussed in other threads.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[EliasIT]

Guys, check out
https://swissgoldsafe.ch/en/
and before you post nonsense like what I read here, OR, you post stuff which you have not researched than take your time and learn how this works.

this is what OP is looking for. There are other companies in Switzerland as well. The point is, no one will know what box belongs to you even if you have to provide them your name and passport. Do your research.

They store billions in Gold, Diamonds and even arts in Switzerland, all safely hidden from the authorities.

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If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

EliasIT said:
Guys, check out
https://swissgoldsafe.ch/en/
and before you post nonsense like what I read here, OR, you post stuff which you have not researched than take your time and learn how this works.

this is what OP is looking for. There are other companies in Switzerland as well. The point is, no one will know what box belongs to you even if you have to provide them your name and passport. Do your research.

They store billions in Gold, Diamonds and even arts in Switzerland, all safely hidden from the authorities.
Click to expand...

Please explain how this can be safer than a hole dug in the ground.

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[EliasIT]

JohnnyDoe said:
Please explain how this can be safer than a hole dug in the ground.
Click to expand...

you suggestion is a joke, so your reply looks to me that you find it all very funny.

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If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

EliasIT said:
you suggestion is a joke, so your reply looks to me that you find it all very funny.
Click to expand...

No, my suggestion is not a joke.
Your suggestion is equivalent to saying that a crypto custodial wallet is safer than a cold wallet.
People have been hiding valuables underground for millennia. Explain why this would be a joke.

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[EliasIT]

JohnnyDoe said:
People have been hiding valuables underground for millennia. Explain why this would be a joke.
Click to expand...

If you live in Australia but want to move to Vienna, how good is your suggestion if you have your codes in the dessert of Australia . If you need the codes you will have to travel there and hope that no Aborigine has found your codes.

As I said it is ridiculous..

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If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

EliasIT said:
If you live in Australia but want to move to Vienna, how good is your suggestion if you have your codes in the dessert of Australia . If you need the codes you will have to travel there and hope that no Aborigine has found your codes.

As I said it is ridiculous..
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If you live in Australia do you store your stuff in Switzerland?
If you live in Vienna, there are plenty of good places in the near countryside where you can dig the hole.
If you need to store codes (seed phrases?) there are many ways to do so that are safer than a deposit box and don't require digging.

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@JohnnyDoe ”“ Your #1 Source for Guidance in Different Offshore Fields​

 

[Martin Everson]

EliasIT said:
Guys, check out
https://swissgoldsafe.ch/en/
Click to expand...

That website is publishing false information or simply they have not updated their website. A safety deposit box they offer in Liechtenstein can no longer be anonymous and is reported to government. Since Liechtenstein adopted the EU 5th AML Directive on 1st April 2021 they keep a centralized register of owners. This covers explicitly safety deposit boxes as you can read below from the horses mouth.

https://www.fma-li.li/files/fma/liechtenstein-5amld-implementation.pdf
In terms of Switzerland itself they say "No identification of the beneficial owner." As there can be a difference between person opening box and the "beneficial owner". Can you confirm they request no personal data from anyone opening the box in Altdorf as a non-resident? Thx

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[EliasIT]

here is their reply @Martin Everson

Wir sind auf die Lagerung von Edelmetallen spezialisiert und führen keinen Handel durch. Somit gelten wir nicht als Finanzintermediär und unterliegen in der Schweiz weder einer finanzmartklichen Aufsicht noch einem automatischen Informationsaustausch.
Click to expand...

Toggle signature
If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[Martin Everson]

EliasIT said:
here is their reply @Martin Everson
Click to expand...

That answer they gave you says nothing sadly. All I want to know is whether they require ID for non-resident person opening the box?

If I read between lines of their answer are they basically saying they do ask for ID but don't pass it on as they are not subject to financial regulation or CRS?

Sorry just need an answer.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[EliasIT]

Ich habe auf Ihrer Webseite gesehen das man Schließfächer bei Ihnen mieten kann, und das auch ohne Namen oder andere daten anzugeben, ist das richtig verstanden?
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That's what I asked.

Here is the complete answer:

wir danken Ihnen für Ihr Interesse an unserem Unternehmen und unseren Dienstleistungen. Unter folgendem Link finden Sie weiterführende Informationen inkl. Angaben zur Grösse und Preisen zu den Schliessfächern in in der Schweiz: Bankenunabhängiges Schliessfach im Gotthardgebiet

Wir haben noch ausreichend Verfügbarkeiten der Schliessfachkategorie 1. Abgesehen der MWST fällt keine weitere Steuer an.

In der Beilage finden Sie ein Formular. Die Informationen dienen uns den Termin, wie auch den Vertrag vorzubereiten. Schliessen Sie den Vertrag mit uns ab, so werden Sie bei uns im System mit eben diesen Daten erfasst.
Click to expand...

Wir sind auf die Lagerung von Edelmetallen spezialisiert und führen keinen Handel durch. Somit gelten wir nicht als Finanzintermediär und unterliegen in der Schweiz weder einer finanzmartklichen Aufsicht noch einem automatischen Informationsaustausch.

Den Termin zur Schliessfachanmietung führen wir jeweils in der Schliessfachanlage durch.
Click to expand...

The "formular" is asking for personal data, so you have to bring your passport with you.

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If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[Martin Everson]

Ok cool. So like I thought it is not anonymous at all. Just clever wordplay they use to deceive people.

You just gonna have to believe me the Swiss will not protect no foreigner holding a box if EU or US comes knocking. Them days are over.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[EliasIT]

Martin Everson said:
You just gonna have to believe me the Swiss will not protect no foreigner holding a box if EU or US comes knocking. Them days are over.
Click to expand...

Doing some research on this topic, there are hundred of thousands people world wide storing their Gold there. I believe what you mean is, if there comes an overall law and pressures on Switzerland (like with the numbered accounts) then it is game over.

But for a single individual who holds some assets there and as long as the above is not the case, it may be secure from governments and other nosy people. Or what do you think?

Toggle signature
If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability!
My personal favorite thread posted in the Mentor Group. Group of investment companies to avoid licensing.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Martin Everson said:
You just gonna have to believe me the Swiss will not protect no foreigner holding a box if EU or US comes knocking. Them days are over.
Click to expand...

That's all there is to know about Switzerland and the Swiss safety/privacy myth, which applies also to banks and whatever else.
If you trust a government, any government, to protect your interests you are doomed.

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@JohnnyDoe ”“ Your #1 Source for Guidance in Different Offshore Fields​