about estonian e-residency
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You like much of what you read here RamsayB! 😀 I would like to learn more about the e-residency in Estonia since it seems to be a very very good alternative to most other offshore jurisdiction. The only thing I find a little strange is the EUR 2500 you have to pay to get started. What exactly is this money for do you know that OP?
I would like to end up my story... I decided to go as far as i could just to have no regrets because i will never come back to Estonia.
I went to Swedbank, the so called best bank in Estonia. It was said on their website that it takes 30 minutes to open a bank account. I told them i wanted to open a bank account at Swedbank. To my surprise i had to give once again my passport and there were puzzled about it. They didn't know which information to take from it. I understood all of that was not serious. I guess︀ people before me took a local nominee or director to make it work because it︁ looked like they never SAW a foreigner. In fact, they really didn't know which numbers︂ to take. They took my french id, then my passport...
By the way the E-residency︃ card was useless, it was not integrated. They had no e-residency card readers. I had︄ to start from scratch. On the other hand, if i remember well, even when you︅ have to open a bank account in another country, they usually send you electronic form︆ or they tell you what will happen.
Then came the big problem. I told them︇ that i wanted them to help me to transfer the money i have already transferred︈ to Krediidi pank. They told me i had to go to Krediidi pank and ask︉ them to open a bank account to transfer money.
They told me: "that's ok no︊ worries, in Estonia no problem". I told them "no there is a problem bye bye"︋
For your information, it is not only the banks the problem. People don't want to︌ admit they don't understand english well and they never ask you to repeat. it is︍ a major problem for business. Also, i feel lucky because if at some point, if︎ you have a real big problem, Estonia can turn into an nightmare as you would️ need a local native Estonian speaking person. I have seen that attorneys here can ask $1200 to do a small research. I don't know about notary.
By writing this thread i hope i will prevent someone to spend money in flight tickets for nothing.
Personal feeling: Estonia reminds me of soviet union where people told you that everything was fine but meanwhile people were deported, there were no food in grocery shops, there were lots of corruption.
When 2500 euros is blocked on an account, when you have no receipt, no proof that is it actually there and when people tell you that everything is fine... That's smell like a big scam for me.
So now, in order to get︀ the money, i will have to terminate the company and then to appoint myself as︁ a liquidator.
This forces all assets to be owed to me and i will get︂ the money back in 4 months (Estonian law).
I do think that people who create︃ company & bank accounts in Belize, BVI, Hong Kong have less problems than that. Am︄ i right?
I went to Swedbank, the so called best bank in Estonia. It was said on their website that it takes 30 minutes to open a bank account. I told them i wanted to open a bank account at Swedbank. To my surprise i had to give once again my passport and there were puzzled about it. They didn't know which information to take from it. I understood all of that was not serious. I guess︀ people before me took a local nominee or director to make it work because it︁ looked like they never SAW a foreigner. In fact, they really didn't know which numbers︂ to take. They took my french id, then my passport...
By the way the E-residency︃ card was useless, it was not integrated. They had no e-residency card readers. I had︄ to start from scratch. On the other hand, if i remember well, even when you︅ have to open a bank account in another country, they usually send you electronic form︆ or they tell you what will happen.
Then came the big problem. I told them︇ that i wanted them to help me to transfer the money i have already transferred︈ to Krediidi pank. They told me i had to go to Krediidi pank and ask︉ them to open a bank account to transfer money.
They told me: "that's ok no︊ worries, in Estonia no problem". I told them "no there is a problem bye bye"︋
For your information, it is not only the banks the problem. People don't want to︌ admit they don't understand english well and they never ask you to repeat. it is︍ a major problem for business. Also, i feel lucky because if at some point, if︎ you have a real big problem, Estonia can turn into an nightmare as you would️ need a local native Estonian speaking person. I have seen that attorneys here can ask $1200 to do a small research. I don't know about notary.
By writing this thread i hope i will prevent someone to spend money in flight tickets for nothing.
Personal feeling: Estonia reminds me of soviet union where people told you that everything was fine but meanwhile people were deported, there were no food in grocery shops, there were lots of corruption.
When 2500 euros is blocked on an account, when you have no receipt, no proof that is it actually there and when people tell you that everything is fine... That's smell like a big scam for me.
So now, in order to get︀ the money, i will have to terminate the company and then to appoint myself as︁ a liquidator.
This forces all assets to be owed to me and i will get︂ the money back in 4 months (Estonian law).
I do think that people who create︃ company & bank accounts in Belize, BVI, Hong Kong have less problems than that. Am︄ i right?
Okay so the 2500 can be used later on. I just need to understand, if this is e-residency does it mean you don't have to pay personal income tax in your home country or what are the tax benefits here. Can we make use of double tax treaties between my country and Estonia for instant?
Imagine an Estonian company earns 100,000 euros
You get 80,000 euros because you have to pay 20,000 euros in corporate tax (20%)
You transfer the money to your bank account in the US or in France or in the UK. Then you have to pay︀ income tax.
Tax treaty means also exchange of data. If a tax treaty is in︁ place between your country and Estonia, then, you can't hide your money because the tax︂ treaty is a data exchange treat between tax authorities too. In the USA, France, UK,︃ you will have to pay income tax on your 80,000 euros and you can't and︄ you should NOT fool your local tax authorities because they can check what you earned︅ remotely from the Estonian Tax Authority.
The only way to pay no income tax would︆ be to move to Costa Rica or Malta and get your money from abroad. You︇ can also move to a country where there is what we call a flat rate,︈ meaning that the percentage of income tax is static. For instance, in Bulgaria, it is︉ 10%
You get 80,000 euros because you have to pay 20,000 euros in corporate tax (20%)
You transfer the money to your bank account in the US or in France or in the UK. Then you have to pay︀ income tax.
Tax treaty means also exchange of data. If a tax treaty is in︁ place between your country and Estonia, then, you can't hide your money because the tax︂ treaty is a data exchange treat between tax authorities too. In the USA, France, UK,︃ you will have to pay income tax on your 80,000 euros and you can't and︄ you should NOT fool your local tax authorities because they can check what you earned︅ remotely from the Estonian Tax Authority.
The only way to pay no income tax would︆ be to move to Costa Rica or Malta and get your money from abroad. You︇ can also move to a country where there is what we call a flat rate,︈ meaning that the percentage of income tax is static. For instance, in Bulgaria, it is︉ 10%
I continue the story.
I have to liquidate the company. I have appointed a liquidator to get back my 2500 euros. It cost me 240 euros. I expected such a thing.
The Estonian government mentioned it takes 6 months for a company dissolution. So, i guess it will take 6 months to get back my share capital.
I am so glad, i don't have more money frozen on an Estonian bank account. Because those 2500 euros are frozen right now. I can't transfer them from the Estonian krediidi pank since they refused to open a bank account for me.
People, let me be clear, that︀ could be way worst. I could have my assets, my bank account seized by the︁ government just like in Venezuela. it is better to stop everything rather than losing more︂ money, more time.
Lesson learned: Doing business in the EU, does not mean that every︃ single country are the same. Every single EU country has different rules.
People who read︄ this, should read my contribution in the whole thread first to understand it.
I have to liquidate the company. I have appointed a liquidator to get back my 2500 euros. It cost me 240 euros. I expected such a thing.
The Estonian government mentioned it takes 6 months for a company dissolution. So, i guess it will take 6 months to get back my share capital.
I am so glad, i don't have more money frozen on an Estonian bank account. Because those 2500 euros are frozen right now. I can't transfer them from the Estonian krediidi pank since they refused to open a bank account for me.
People, let me be clear, that︀ could be way worst. I could have my assets, my bank account seized by the︁ government just like in Venezuela. it is better to stop everything rather than losing more︂ money, more time.
Lesson learned: Doing business in the EU, does not mean that every︃ single country are the same. Every single EU country has different rules.
People who read︄ this, should read my contribution in the whole thread first to understand it.
That's a very good question, if we take into account that:
Estonia corporate tax: 20%
Latvia corporate tax: 15%
Cyprus is 12,5%
But if you incorporate a business somewhere and if you can't open a bank account. It is kind of useless. I think it is in Cyprus where it is the easiest to open a bank account. Now, i suggest to open a bank in the same country where you have your company because thanks to that you have rebates.
More importantly, i know the Cyprus banks, and with them, it is really clear what you have to do to open︀ a bank account in cyprus. They direct you. They exactly tell you what they want.︁ None of the Cyprus are overpriced. Today Cyprus is very interesting.
Then, you have to︂ be cautious with accountants who may ask you a lot of money.
Estonia corporate tax: 20%
Latvia corporate tax: 15%
Cyprus is 12,5%
But if you incorporate a business somewhere and if you can't open a bank account. It is kind of useless. I think it is in Cyprus where it is the easiest to open a bank account. Now, i suggest to open a bank in the same country where you have your company because thanks to that you have rebates.
More importantly, i know the Cyprus banks, and with them, it is really clear what you have to do to open︀ a bank account in cyprus. They direct you. They exactly tell you what they want.︁ None of the Cyprus are overpriced. Today Cyprus is very interesting.
Then, you have to︂ be cautious with accountants who may ask you a lot of money.
Thanks for your very detailed description of your journey to establish an e-residency in Estonia. It seems not to be easy to get it done even though it sounded like that in the beginning of your thread. I'm glad I didn't jumped into it yet. I was close to do just to try it out.
Anyway, I hope you get your money back and find some different jurisdiction to establish your business. Estonia has still a high corruption rate and they make it very expensive and complicated to sue anyone there locally. I know the lawyer's are using this country so most of the Baltic︀ countries as an silver plate to just take the money they want when a foreign︁ business gets in troubles.
Anyway, I hope you get your money back and find some different jurisdiction to establish your business. Estonia has still a high corruption rate and they make it very expensive and complicated to sue anyone there locally. I know the lawyer's are using this country so most of the Baltic︀ countries as an silver plate to just take the money they want when a foreign︁ business gets in troubles.
I have paid an attorney to dissolve the company. Now, it will take between 6 to 8 months to get back the 2500 euros share capital.
That's actually the time to get back the money according to the Estonian gov. law.
About opening the bank in the same country... Sure, the local gov. can seize your money if they want.
Offshore banks are always the best. (Baltikums & Breder Suasso).
That's actually the time to get back the money according to the Estonian gov. law.
About opening the bank in the same country... Sure, the local gov. can seize your money if they want.
Offshore banks are always the best. (Baltikums & Breder Suasso).
Incorporating an offshore company is a bumpy ride. It looks easy on the Internet but it is not easy at all. Nevertheless, i would like to tell you something.
I am french, and here the number of administration tasks and taxes are just crazy. here also, the corporate tax is 30% + 3% contribution tax + other government fees + income tax
If i incorporate a company︀ in France from my online business with me as only shareholder/director and pay myself by︁ dividends, i would pay 65% total tax from turnover to my private account.
So, my︂ problem incorporating a business is really nothing compared to the taxes and all the administration︃ i would have in france
I am french, and here the number of administration tasks and taxes are just crazy. here also, the corporate tax is 30% + 3% contribution tax + other government fees + income tax
If i incorporate a company︀ in France from my online business with me as only shareholder/director and pay myself by︁ dividends, i would pay 65% total tax from turnover to my private account.
So, my︂ problem incorporating a business is really nothing compared to the taxes and all the administration︃ i would have in france
65% that's a lot of TAX to be paid considering to be a small business that may not have huge expenses. How the hell is anyone able to make a living there if you have to pay so much TAX on your profits? is there anything you can do in France to reduce the corporate tax or is it just a numbers game, the higher the profit the better your wealth level?
I would like to mention, i have made a mistake: in Estonia corporate tax is 0% and then that's the distributed income to nonresidents that is taxed at 20%. It is like a dividend withholding tax at 20%
On the other hand, here, people can incorporate a Cyprus company with 12,5% corporate tax and no Withholding tax. And at the same time, they can open a Cyprus bank account remotely.
Meanwhile, and whatever they tell you online, it is not possible to open a bank account remotely in Estonia. Flying there cost lots of money.
On the other hand, here, people can incorporate a Cyprus company with 12,5% corporate tax and no Withholding tax. And at the same time, they can open a Cyprus bank account remotely.
Meanwhile, and whatever they tell you online, it is not possible to open a bank account remotely in Estonia. Flying there cost lots of money.
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