Incorporation for non KYC

[Forester]

daniels27 said:
How about Switzerland?
Click to expand...

Yes, worth checking, IMO. Also Liechtenstein and Iceland, if we talk about Europe.

Don said:
Perhaps El Salvador could be option, assuming clients will pay in bitcoin.

El Salvador became the first country to make bitcoin legal tender; not only must bitcoin be accepted as a means of payment for taxes and debts, but also businesses are required to accept bitcoin as a medium of exchange.
Click to expand...

In LatAm, perhaps Paraguay also worth checking. It's ”“ officially ”“ a crypto-friendly country, too.

Marshal said:
Monero will soon be removed from all licensed crypto exchanges. There will be no way to cash out this crypto easily and cost effective.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? (But it's OT a little.)

Marshal said:
Anonymity is costly.
Click to expand...

No doubts, naturally.

Toggle signature
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

Forester said:
Are you sure? (But it's OT a little.)
Click to expand...

Happening as we speak in EU: How & Why the EU Can Confiscate Your Wealth If You Can't Explain It.

 

[Forester]

0xDEADBEEF said:
Happening as we speak in EU: How & Why the EU Can Confiscate Your Wealth If You Can't Explain It.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course; if we speak about EU then it is totally clear. I've taken @Marshal 's statement as general...

Toggle signature
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[JackAlabama]

Forester said:
Yes, worth checking, IMO. Also Liechtenstein and Iceland, if we talk about Europe.

In LatAm, perhaps Paraguay also worth checking. It's ”“ officially ”“ a crypto-friendly country, too.$
Click to expand...

banks there are not crypto friendly at all. So this needs to be dealt with.

Forester said:
Are you sure? (But it's OT a little.)

No doubts, naturally.
Click to expand...

 

[Forester]

JackAlabama said:
banks there are not crypto friendly at all. So this needs to be dealt with.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree; in general, banking there sucks remarkably. The financial flows IMO should be split in such a case, crypto being solved separately...

Toggle signature
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[mraleph]

slade991 said:
Hello all,

I currently own a us llc, however a new law for IAAS will soon require providers to ask customers for KYC information. Problem is our niche is exactly the opposite, not requiring any KYC and 90% of our customers pay with crypto.
The current setup is that the crypto is converted to fiat through exchange and then hit our corporate bank account.

I'm now looking at incorporating somewhere else where i can keep the no KYC requirement for my business. However it doesn't seem very clear where that would work.
Does anyone know which country i could incorporate where i could conduct my business without asking any information from my customer ?

Obviously we do not provide any financial solution or the like, only provide services and crypto is only used as a method of payment.

Thank you!
Click to expand...

Another entity in differently regulated environment - Vanuatu etc. may receive the payments for defined service and US entity may issue the aggregate invoice for the IaaS to deregulated entity. No WHT in Vanuatu, but it's not the only option.

Where is your infrastructure located? Is it yours or leased or rented? What denomination you print on invoices towards end users and what currency you receive from crypto exchange?

 

[slade991]

It seems singapore allow to do accounting with receipt. And those don't require any customer information.
So it seems that would probably be our best / affordable option at the moment.
Any crypto friendly bank in SG ?

Where is your infrastructure located? Is it yours or leased or rented? What denomination you print on invoices towards end users and what currency you receive from crypto exchange?
Click to expand...

We are renting atm. Infrastructure is in NA and Europe. We invoice in euros and receive us dollars ( us LLC entity). But if the law pass, we'll probably have to shut down our US servers offering.

 

[daniels27]

slade991 said:
It seems singapore allow to do accounting with receipt. And those don't require any customer information.
So it seems that would probably be our best / affordable option at the moment.
Click to expand...

Even Walmart in the US does accounting with receipt. I think you can do this business anywhere in Europe and beyond.

 

[slade991]

Even Walmart in the US does accounting with receipt. I think you can do this business anywhere in Europe and beyond.
Click to expand...

Issue is US might pass a law to require IAAS to gather KYC for customer as i linked earlier.

 

[daniels27]

slade991 said:
Issue is US might pass a law to require IAAS to gather KYC for customer as i linked earlier.
Click to expand...

Yes I know. Then just use any other is the 200 countries. Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Singapore, BVI etc. They can all handle it.

 

[mraleph]

slade991 said:
It seems singapore allow to do accounting with receipt. And those don't require any customer information.
So it seems that would probably be our best / affordable option at the moment.
Any crypto friendly bank in SG ?


We are renting atm. Infrastructure is in NA and Europe. We invoice in euros and receive us dollars ( us LLC entity). But if the law pass, we'll probably have to shut down our US servers offering.
Click to expand...

No you wont need to shut down the US infrastructure. Conclude the IaaS contract between US entity and a new entity in preferable jurisdiction which will be used for payments.

US entity will provide IaaS to KYCed entity and you'll be compliant.

Defined services offered by new entity as something different than you did with US entity.

Last edited: May 2, 2024

 

[slade991]

Thing is that law apply to US server as well not only to US entity. Even for reseller.
So even if technically a KYCed entity is renting the servers, this entity will resell the server as VPS to customers which will need to be KYCed as well. Except if lying and saying the servers are not resold which is a whole different can of worms and pretty easy to prove against.

 

[sebastian]

slade991 said:
I want to be fully legit and also the money doesn't stay in crypto it is converted to fiat and go to business bank account.
Click to expand...

In that case, make sure you get generated invoices for each customer and money can be followed. You get lot's of troubles otherwise. No kidding with the n**i tax office, they will hunt you like brutal dogs.

 

[daniels27]

sebastian said:
No kidding with the n**i tax office, they will hunt you like brutal dogs.
Click to expand...

You mean the ones from Ukraine Putin keeps talking about? I would not believe this sh1t. Or you mean the ones from AfD that the German idiots in the government keep telling about? Not much more credible either.

I think the rules are about similar in each country. You need a bank/crypto statement with incoming payments and matching invoices. Also like in all countries, the invoice can be without any personal information (some people tend to call it receipt although most jurisdictions only have one legal term for either document).

 

[Forester]

daniels27 said:
You mean the ones from Ukraine Putin keeps talking about? I would not believe this sh1t. Or you mean the ones from AfD that the German idiots in the government keep telling about? Not much more credible either.

I think the rules are about similar in each country. You need a bank/crypto statement with incoming payments and matching invoices. Also like in all countries, the invoice can be without any personal information (some people tend to call it receipt although most jurisdictions only have one legal term for either document).
Click to expand...

This is going quite off-topic, so please do not go much further on.

Just a small remark: Per my own experience, these rules really differ a lot around the world. Somewhere/sometimes you do not need any invoices at all and somewhere/sometimes you must have a personal information on every invoice, at least above some amount like ~500 USD or so.

Toggle signature
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[mraleph]

slade991 said:
Thing is that law apply to US server as well not only to US entity. Even for reseller.
So even if technically a KYCed entity is renting the servers, this entity will resell the server as VPS to customers which will need to be KYCed as well. Except if lying and saying the servers are not resold which is a whole different can of worms and pretty easy to prove against.
Click to expand...

I haven't proposed retail model. Read the written again.

KYC as AML/CTF procedure is standard in all service models, including IaaS in almost every jurisdiction in the West.

Part of my portfolio includes IaaS in US, Switzerland, UK, Netherlands, Germany and Singapore where our operating companies have racks, cages and suites as well as antenna rooftop space with our equipment. Those companies lease resources to contractual parties against which we performed due diligence, hence we are compliant towards authorities, including US.

Those parties have access and usage rights of our resources and they can create whatever they want - creating FX virtual instances, switches with virtual IX access and IP transit, computational nodes, Storage-as-a-service, PTP and NTP stratum 1 time-as-a-service etc. - excluding obviously forbidden stuff.

sebastian said:
In that case, make sure you get generated invoices for each customer and money can be followed. You get lot's of troubles otherwise. No kidding with the n**i tax office, they will hunt you like brutal dogs.
Click to expand...

slade991 said:
I want to be fully legit and also the money doesn't stay in crypto it is converted to fiat and go to business bank account.
Click to expand...

The business and financial anonimity and privacy doesn't come in the same basket with legitimacy. A lot of things can be anticipated so you should not build a business model against the regulatory ones. You can make an overlay, but I suppose that discussion is for Gold group.

 

[JohnLocke]

daniels27 said:
I think the rules are about similar in each country. You need a bank/crypto statement with incoming payments and matching invoices. Also like in all countries, the invoice can be without any personal information (some people tend to call it receipt although most jurisdictions only have one legal term for either document).
Click to expand...

From personal experience you better have the customers name and details on each invoice. If the tax office is going crazy they will tell you these invoices are not real but fake and you get taxed personally on the total amount of each invoice.

Toggle signature

>> Unlock the Power of OffshoreCorpTalk: Become a Member of the Mentor Group Gold <<​

Latest Video Interviews, Offshore Company Resources, Payment Processing Tips & Tricks, Articles and Anonymity Hints only a click away!
Support the Freedom of Speech of our Community

Disclaimer: Nothing I say should be taken as tax, legal or financial advice. Anything I say is for general informational purposes only. Always seek independent professional advice.​

 

[daniels27]

JohnLocke said:
From personal experience you better have the customers name and details on each invoice. If the tax office is going crazy they will tell you these invoices are not real but fake and you get taxed personally on the total amount of each invoice.
Click to expand...

Forester said:
Just a small remark: Per my own experience, these rules really differ a lot around the world. Somewhere/sometimes you do not need any invoices at all and somewhere/sometimes you must have a personal information on every invoice, at least above some amount like ~500 USD or so.
Click to expand...

I think at least some of the rules pertain to claiming back VAT. But that brings us to another problem. How do you account for VAT if you do not know where the people live?

BTW: See this example for Mullvad VPN from Sweden:
https://www.collegesidekick.com/study-docs/2610691
Seems at least they get off with such a generic invoice. Sounds quite interesting.

But maybe, you can also ask your customers to enter a country and an address. The Google Address completer is a real good tool in this case as it proposes fake addresses without the need to look for them.

 

[JohnLocke]

daniels27 said:
I think at least some of the rules pertain to claiming back VAT. But that brings us to another problem. How do you account for VAT if you do not know where the people live?
Click to expand...

That's why I see it's better to collect full customer details so you won't get troubles with the tax office.

daniels27 said:
But maybe, you can also ask your customers to enter a country and an address. The Google Address completer is a real good tool in this case as it proposes fake addresses without the need to look for them.
Click to expand...

In our case the tax office had sufficient of time to lookup each address and see that most of them were fake, not done by us but by the customers, so it came back like a boomerang.

You really need to make some advance setup if you want to avoid troubles with the tax offices in Europe.

Toggle signature

>> Unlock the Power of OffshoreCorpTalk: Become a Member of the Mentor Group Gold <<​

Latest Video Interviews, Offshore Company Resources, Payment Processing Tips & Tricks, Articles and Anonymity Hints only a click away!
Support the Freedom of Speech of our Community

Disclaimer: Nothing I say should be taken as tax, legal or financial advice. Anything I say is for general informational purposes only. Always seek independent professional advice.​

 

[daniels27]

JohnLocke said:
That's why I see it's better to collect full customer details so you won't get troubles with the tax office.
Click to expand...

Yes, but his company is the Mullvad VPN for hosting. He won't have any customers if he knows them.

JohnLocke said:
In our case the tax office had sufficient of time to lookup each address and see that most of them were fake, not done by us but by the customers, so it came back like a boomerang.

You really need to make some advance setup if you want to avoid troubles with the tax offices in Europe.
Click to expand...

Then, he should go to Switzerland or Liechtenstein, where they only get to see the addresses when they are doing the government audit at your office. But it most be possible. I mean Mullvad is big in Sweden and they are still operating.