Yet another Digital Nomad from EU

[orangekangaroo]

I asked the question myself back at the start of the year about Cyprus running costs.

https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/threads/yearly-cost-of-running-a-cyprus-company.31767/
5-6K is what most people reported.

I know you want to promote Cyprus and I think it is great. However, it has expensive running costs. Therefore it starts to work better once your earn 100K-150K plus.

 

[CyprusLaw]

orangekangaroo said:
I asked the question myself back at the start of the year about Cyprus running costs.

https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/threads/yearly-cost-of-running-a-cyprus-company.31767/
5-6K is what most people reported.

I know you want to promote Cyprus and I think it is great. However, it has expensive running costs. Therefore it starts to work better once your earn 100K-150K plus.
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Accounting and audit costs depend on the volume of transactions and risk assessment of the company - in this OPs case the costs would be on the low side.

With respect to annual nominee services you can expect around 3K per year - if the OP plans to relocate in Cyprus he can avoid this.

For the incorporation of the company you are looking at around 2K (one off fees).

 

[leaveNet]

orangekangaroo said:
Romania

• Company setup 450 euros
• Company admin - 600 euros
• 3% tax on turnover (50K) - 1500 euros
• 5% divi tax on (48.5K) - 2425 euro
• NHS fee - 550 euros
• Flat rental for 1 year 3500 euros

Around 9K for the first year and 8.5K after. So 18% overall tax/costs
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Thank you very much for giving out such details. Solely the numbers make sense. I can find only one (German) agent that provides service for that. I'm still not convinces though, because Romania is still Romania.

CyprusLaw said:
Accounting and audit costs depend on the volume of transactions and risk assessment of the company - in this OPs case the costs would be on the low side.

With respect to annual nominee services you can expect around 3K per year - if the OP plans to relocate in Cyprus he can avoid this.

For the incorporation of the company you are looking at around 2K (one off fees).
Click to expand...

Sounds like I can expect costs of around 15k€. To be honest, that doesn't sound too bad. Thank you too for the details.

 

[CyprusLaw]

leaveNet said:
Thank you very much for giving out such details. Solely the numbers make sense. I can find only one (German) agent that provides service for that. I'm still not convinces though, because Romania is still Romania.

Sounds like I can expect costs of around 15k€. To be honest, that doesn't sound too bad. Thank you too for the details.
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My pleasure. Happy to PM you if you need to discuss this more.

 

[mad1max]

But Cyprus is still EU and I have the feeling they get pressured soon and get much more unattractive and you also will not be able to leave, without exit tax.

Wouldn't Georgia be an alternative it has a 1% Tax for IT Services.
I don't know how easy it is to write Bills and of course not everyone wants to move to Georgia either. But it should be easy to upgrade to UAE later if you meat your revenue goals, without exit taxes.

Also you could avoid creating a company altogether and use something like a Virtual Company that you can use to write Invoices and pay a 5% fee.

 

[blizz]

orangekangaroo said:
There are a few forum members including me that use Romania.
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Do you live in Romania or in Cyprus ?

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[leaveNet]

mad1max said:
Wouldn't Georgia be an alternative it has a 1% Tax for IT Services.
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Same problem as Romania for me. Not a country I want to live in. I also saw many people online moving from Georgia to Cyprus because they don't like it there.

mad1max said:
Also you could avoid creating a company altogether and use something like a Virtual Company that you can use to write Invoices and pay a 5% fee.
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I here Virtual Company for the first time. I will check that out but I guess it doesn't solve tax residency issue.

 

[orangekangaroo]

blizz said:
Do you live in Romania or in Cyprus ?
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Romania. Also I want to built substance. IT talent pool is big here compared to Cyprus.

 

[mad1max]

leaveNet said:
Same problem as Romania for me. Not a country I want to live in. I also saw many people online moving from Georgia to Cyprus because they don't like it there.
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You only would need to live their 6 Month and create your company there.
So it is not connected to Germany and you have cut all ties to Germany before, forming your company.
I guess if you only want to travel for 2 years that isn't worth it and you could just wing it anyway.

leaveNet said:
I here Virtual Company for the first time. I will check that out but I guess it doesn't solve tax residency issue.
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It's just an Estonian company, that allows it's customers to write invoices in their name and then you are basically working freelance for them,, they get 5%.
Not sure if they don't care where you live. I am talking about the "GO" package from the biggest company formation agency there.

What I mean is this gives you time, you could alo stay in Germany and start as "Freiberufler" no company taxes. or even IHK fees, just Income Tax. Don't spent half your money in the bank just to create a company, without having lived in the country for a while. What if you hate it there, or your business doesn't work.

Also if you store your stuff in Germany in a storage place, they still consider you a Tax resident, because they assume you're planing to return.

 

[baio12]

mad1max said:
You only would need to live their 6 Month and create your company there.
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You need to be there 6 months out of every year or just the first?

Segd said:
Can recommend Romania. I'm a software dev from Finland and created an LLC there. 3% revenue tax + 5% dividend tax. Around 40-50e for accounting.
There's no minimum residence requirement, so you can rent an apartment for few hundred euros and spend 5.5 months in Germany and the other time somewhere else 🙂
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Are the company registries public so anyone can look up the owners or directors of any company there?

orangekangaroo said:
You will need to make Romania your centre of the universe, you do this with a rental contract, drivers licence, insurance etc, mobile phone etc, this would mean you need to stay the first month to set this all up. After that, you make a few visits a year. I know plenty of guys doing this. Don't get caught in other countries with their residency requirements.
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If you need to have a rental contract and other documents from Romania how are there no residency requirements?

 

[mad1max]

baio12 said:
You need to be there 6 months out of every year or just the first?
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No, every year, but it's easier to move your company to Cyprus or UAE later, without triggering expensive exit laws. That was what I was trying to say.

 

[leaveNet]

mad1max said:
Don't spent half your money in the bank just to create a company, without having lived in the country for a while.
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yeah, that's why I'm here. I want to find a sufficient solution for myself.

mad1max said:
Also if you store your stuff in Germany in a storage place, they still consider you a Tax resident, because they assume you're planing to return.
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Good point! Thank you for the hint.

mad1max said:
that allows it's customers to write invoices in their name and then you are basically working freelance for them,, they get 5%.
Not sure if they don't care where you live.
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Thank you again for the hint. I guess the residency issue is still present in that case but let me dig deeper first.

mad1max said:
No, every year, but it's easier to move your company to Cyprus or UAE later
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I read about HNWI program. 60k€/year income for the last three years. Then you don't have to be there for 6 months a year. That sound not too bad to me.

 

[mad1max]

leaveNet said:
I read about HNWI program. 60k€/year income for the last three years. Then you don't have to be there for 6 months a year. That sound not too bad to me.
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I read here somewhere that this is not accepted by some Governments. I think they talked about Spain, but it is probably still risky. But then again why would they accept Cyprusses 2 month then?

 

[blizz]

orangekangaroo said:
Romania. Also I want to built substance. IT talent pool is big here compared to Cyprus.
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looks like a very good idea to consider Romania as a destination to relocate. Some could start with a 4 weeks vacation there 🙂

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[kkein]

mad1max said:
I read here somewhere that this is not accepted by some Governments. I think they talked about Spain, but it is probably still risky. But then again why would they accept Cyprusses 2 month then?
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It's Cyprus that accepts 60days and is willing to provide you a TRC in return.
When taxman will come to you, you show the tax certificate.
If it's EU Taxman, since cyprus is EU, it's on them to prove that you have in fact not complied with local regulations (for example by exceeding the amount of time you could spend in the country) and should therefore be taxed by them.

 

[orangekangaroo]

blizz said:
looks like a very good idea to consider Romania as a destination to relocate. Some could start with a 4 weeks vacation there 🙂
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it is exactly what I did before making them move. I toured the big cities. However, at the moment, Romania is bad again with Covid numbers so I would discourage it for now.

 

[JohnLocke]

Romania and Cyprus seems not to be a bad idea fir people possible to relocate.

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[leaveNet]

Things are moving on my side. Romania is still not my type of country and I think it's not where I want to go.

mad1max said:
Wouldn't Georgia be an alternative it has a 1% Tax for IT Services.
Click to expand...

I'm looking deeper into the details about Bulgaria now. Looks way better than Romania to me but is not EU. I'm not sure about sending invoices from Bulgaria to Germany and how this is handled. I also read things about banking issues with international transfers.

 

[kkein]

leaveNet said:
Things are moving on my side. Romania is still not my type of country and I think it's not where I want to go.


I'm looking deeper into the details about Bulgaria now. Looks way better than Romania to me but is not EU. I'm not sure about sending invoices from Bulgaria to Germany and how this is handled. I also read things about banking issues with international transfers.
Click to expand...

What's the problem with Romania? Also, it's pretty big, and not all the places are the same. I heard Bucharest area isn't great

 

[marioIT]

I'd go with Romania these days on low money.
Yeah, there are some run down areas in Bucharest, random ugly buildings etc
But c'mon it's not THAT bad if it allows you to save a lot of taxes, and grow your online business.
It's cheap and it's safe.
Plenty of big IT companies(Microsoft, oracle, amazon etc)
Internet iirc was third in whole world for average speed. And cheap as chips.
Low taxes, low salaries. Cheap flights to anywhere in Europe.
If you don't like Bucharest after a while you can even try Iasi, Cluj or Timisoara.
Heck, once you setup your residence there, cut with Germany, rent a place and you could even travel the world year round...
About banking, find a firm that will help with the opening.
if you are somewhat decent and the local lawyer comes with you, they'll open no issues.

When thinking of Bulgaria, always remember:

Never ever sign something in cyrillic if you don't understand it.
Have a trusted translator/lawyer with you!
A few friends were scammed big and I am still laughing about it...