What are the privacy tools are your using ?
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That website has a list of tools that you can use and learn more about. Don't take their word for it. Whatever you pick, question it from time to time. Am I still using something that's trustworthy?
It's a bit like the secrecy people seek with offshore companies or bank accounts. Privacy from? Under what circumstances? What's your tolerance?
Privacy a balancing act between convenience and your data. You can lock yourself down and be nearly untraceable but then you can't access certain websites, apps, or services. Popular privacy plugins like uBlock Origin, Cookie AutoDelete, Privacy Badger, and DecentralEyes make you harder to track but can break a lot of website functionality.
For browsing, have different browsers for different purposes with different privacy levels. For even greater privacy, use a virtual machine or better yet a remote desktop (paid for anonymously, if you can).
On the other hand, the more steps you take towards privacy, the more you stand out from the norm. By seeking privacy, you may become difficult to track across services, but you may stand out on individual services.
You can test yourself on Cover Your Tracks
You need a similar approach to instant messaging. Be pragmatic and realistic. You can and should try, but some people just aren't going to install your preferred high-privacy, high-security IM app (Signal, Session, Matrix, Threema). However, maybe you can get them to change from less secure services (Skype, Telegram, Viber) to WhatsApp, which at least is end-to-end encrypted even though it's owned by Meta.
Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2023
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This is the probably the answer to your question.
It's a bit like the secrecy people seek with offshore companies or bank accounts. Privacy from? Under what circumstances? What's your tolerance?
Privacy a balancing act between convenience and your data. You can lock yourself down and be nearly untraceable but then you can't access certain websites, apps, or services. Popular privacy plugins like uBlock Origin, Cookie AutoDelete, Privacy Badger, and DecentralEyes make you harder to track but can break a lot of website functionality.
For browsing, have different browsers for different purposes with different privacy levels. For even greater privacy, use a virtual machine or better yet a remote desktop (paid for anonymously, if you can).
On the other hand, the more steps you take towards privacy, the more you stand out from the norm. By seeking privacy, you may become difficult to track across services, but you may stand out on individual services.
You can test yourself on Cover Your Tracks
You need a similar approach to instant messaging. Be pragmatic and realistic. You can and should try, but some people just aren't going to install your preferred high-privacy, high-security IM app (Signal, Session, Matrix, Threema). However, maybe you can get them to change from less secure services (Skype, Telegram, Viber) to WhatsApp, which at least is end-to-end encrypted even though it's owned by Meta.
Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2023
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This is the probably the answer to your question.
Signal - isn't high-privacy, high-security IM.
How do you know that WhatsApp is end-to-end encrypted? Is its source code open? No.
And it belongs to the corporation that's up for anything but users' privacy.
How do you know that WhatsApp is end-to-end encrypted? Is its source code open? No.
And it belongs to the corporation that's up for anything but users' privacy.
The reality is that while Signal is less than perfect, it's probably the best out of all popular options. The main complaint about Signal is it requires a phone number. If you're concerned about that, either don't use Signal or use an anonymous phone number to sign up (burner phone, anonymous SIM, anonymous VOIP).
You can limit yourself to Briar and Session all you want, but odds are you'll be quite lonely there if ever want to talk to people outside of a specific niche.
I have no reason to doubt that WhatsApp is more secure than other popular messaging systems that use little to no encryption. I likewise have no reason to believe that WhatsApp's implementation of E2EE is as good as other services that focus more on security and privacy. Do you see the difference?
Law enforcements face both success and failure with getting data out of WhatsApp, whereas the success rate is 100% for unsecured messaging systems. But it might be zero with your preferred apps.
Security and privacy aren't binary. They are spectrums.
All it takes to break the best encryption in the world is a convincing threat of violence at the right person.
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This is the probably the answer to your question.
Just want add one thing about whatsapp.
The backups to either google drive, or icloud are totally un-encrypted (unless you manually turn it on).
Meaning if you are talking to someone who is given subpoena, rather than going after the device they can just submit a request to google for the cloud data and read everything from there.
This reason among (many) others is a reason I strongly discourage whatsapp. Other reasons include the pen registry. I see potential for getting into legal BS due to agencies being able to see who you talk to. Lets say one of your 'friends' is selling drugs and you don't know. You talk to him. The pen registry updates this info every 15 min to law enforcement, making you associated with criminals.
The reasons go on and on.
You've not replied to my actual point. You've diverted. "Yeah, it's not perfect, you know.... but! it's better nonetheless".
"You" have no reason? 😀
But this still may not confirm that Whatsapp in reality uses end-to-end encryption.
Your points are valid but in no way go against my point, that privacy and security are spectrums not absolutes.
Often in real life, you have a choice between SMS (known plain text) and WhatsApp (likely using E2EE, even if flawed). Most people aren't going to install, sign up for, and keep using yet another IM app just to chat with you when all their friends, acquaintances, coworkers, handymen, and delivery drivers are using SMS and WhatsApp. So you pick the least bad option.
If your threats are state actors, corporate espionage, or tech-savvy organized criminals, hopefully you're using something else for private messaging about those things than you do to let your delivery driver know you're not home and to leave the package by the gate.
Spectrum.
There wasn't much to reply to. If you want to expand on your point, I'd be happy to hear it.
Of course not. You can't know for sure with any service that's centralized.
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This is the probably the answer to your question.
These arguments of "you cannot be 100% sure the company tells you the truth so use this other company" never make sense to me. I can create an E2EE messaging service, upload the source code to github, and then simply upload something else to the App stores where you will download it. The only way to get around these arguments is by downloading the code yourself and then compiling it yourself, but I do not think anyone does this.
Just look at existing jurisprudence. If people use whatsapp witb E2EE enabled, and do not use the built in backup functionality which saves all your chats in plain text anyway, I have never seen them be able to crack it...
Just look at existing jurisprudence. If people use whatsapp witb E2EE enabled, and do not use the built in backup functionality which saves all your chats in plain text anyway, I have never seen them be able to crack it...
Telegram or better Signal is 100% fine if you are not involved in anything illegal
I don't see any point in using some unknown super secure messanger that nobody uses and looks like outdated crap (often can turn out to be a honeypot)
I see drug dealers and this type of activity present on telegram so it shouldn't be that unsecure...
If you don't want to use your phone number you can use website like this for that purpose
sms-activate.org/
I don't see any point in using some unknown super secure messanger that nobody uses and looks like outdated crap (often can turn out to be a honeypot)
I see drug dealers and this type of activity present on telegram so it shouldn't be that unsecure...
If you don't want to use your phone number you can use website like this for that purpose
sms-activate.org/
I think it really depends on WHY you want to stay hidden. If you're a Mafia boss, terrorist, drugs dealer or mass murderer, then they'll eventually track you down when you make a small mistake.
On the other hand, I seem to be getting more paranoid as I get older and see how our privacy is being eroded, so I rather like playing with these toys.
I had great fun with a GPS emulator that fools my phone GPS and can put me wherever I like, so Google maps says that I'm in the Sahara desert etc. . But it's not for serious use. My phone sim will still place me at a location!
I thought about downloading Signal, but in all honesty, my Whatsapp conversations are the most boring you can imagine and I don't worry about it. Perhaps I worry more about all the things I've written on Facebook over the years!! That could come back one day! 😉
PS Can anyone recommend an affordable VPN? When I retire, there will be times when I travel but want my emails and apps to show me back home.
On the other hand, I seem to be getting more paranoid as I get older and see how our privacy is being eroded, so I rather like playing with these toys.
I had great fun with a GPS emulator that fools my phone GPS and can put me wherever I like, so Google maps says that I'm in the Sahara desert etc. . But it's not for serious use. My phone sim will still place me at a location!
I thought about downloading Signal, but in all honesty, my Whatsapp conversations are the most boring you can imagine and I don't worry about it. Perhaps I worry more about all the things I've written on Facebook over the years!! That could come back one day! 😉
PS Can anyone recommend an affordable VPN? When I retire, there will be times when I travel but want my emails and apps to show me back home.
I use ivpn and am very happy with them (they also accept monero and seem to host most of their servers themselves instead of having this done by M247 which is a British company that owns ~70% of all the VPN infrastructure).
How have you been able to assess this?
If one isn't involved in anything illegal, any messenger is fine.
I use NordVPN and it does everything you need, pay for a 2 year subscription and it's cheap.
I also use and app called KIK, you don't need a number to have an account, you create a user name, so you give your user name to the other person, like your mistress, and off you go, you can send messages and pictures without anyone ever knowing your number.
I don't have a Facebook account, I don't have a Twitter account, I don't have an Instagram account, and so on, and it's not a bad idea having several Passports.
It is most often used for sexting, unfortunately it is a bit unstable.
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