Turkish citizenship from Polish real estate.

[2fire]

Dear OCT members,

I have a real estate in Poland which I am leasing out. For the last years price of real estate nearly doubled, while rental income brings relative small ROI.

Would you consider at my place to sell real estate in Poland now and would buy something in Turkey?

Such step could bring me not only rental income, but also additional citizenship on top of that?

 

[apres777]

From what I've heard you can only buy properties from actual citizens / companies to‌ obtain citizenship.

If you sell to another expat which goal is to gain citizenship it‍ won't grant them citizenship, therefore you're selling market is quite limited.

Would love to know⁠ if this is actual true or just "rumours".

 

[Forester]

You are talking about Turkey, I presume?

 

[ActionMan]

I would⁣ retain the property in Poland and securing a loan against it with favorable interest rates.⁢ If the rental income is sufficient, it could cover the loan payments, allowing you to︀ mortgage the property. Some banks, including international ones like Isbank AG, a Turkish bank, are︁ often willing to facilitate such transactions. and I would still get the Turkish citizenship.

3 birds with one stone.

On a side note, Poland and turkey, a weird match if︂ you ask for my personal opinion.

 

[void]

doesn't Turkey have‌ the obligatory military service for it's citizens?

 

[ActionMan]

Yes, but you can pay an exemption fee of € 5-6K and get over it.‍

 

[void]

I didn't know that 😉 that's an unexpected solution
how does‍ it work? do you pay the ransom when you're summoned or in advance to make⁠ sure you're not even considered? do native Turks have this option as well or is⁤ it just a workaround bundled with CBI programs?

 

[369]

That's an⁢ advice to lose its property or a lot of money

 

[12345]

Poland real estate market is overpriced at the moment but right now the new government‌ is indroducing new state financed mortgage program which could result in prices going even higher‍ in the upcoming 2-3 years. Maybe you could increase your rent or try airbnb for⁠ better yield?

Turkey has a lot to offer but be careful since the market is⁤ filled with traps for foreigners seeking citizenship by investment

Consider renovated property in historic center⁣ of the city not overpriced developer scams, also consider inflation, high end property rent is⁢ often valued in foreign currency

Montenegro, Budapest could be an interesting choice too

 

[Burak]

It might not be the best time to buy a property from Turkey, house prices‌ are doubled even in USD after pandemic. And there is an expected tight monetary policy‍ in following months, which may affect house prices.

Also, yes you can pay fee to⁠ avoid military service but you still need to serve for 28 days even if you⁤ pay fee (military is only necessary if you haven't completed it in your own country⁣ and you are under 22 years old).

 

[Marketint]

Even for the⁢ claiming to be gay or medical disease? I thought this was the route to avoid︀ military. Even in case of war.

 

[Burak]

Those will be sufficient to avoid however process of proving you're gay is not that simple.‍ You need to complete physiological tests and as far as I know they ask not-nice⁠ questions. But proving you are disabled is easier compared to it.

 

[2fire]

I am curious to know how does it works.
Should I make a valuation⁠ of the my PL property, then get the loan against my property in Poland (equity⁤ release) and then to buy property in Turkey (not mortgage)? Does anyone actually done it⁣ with Isbank or any other bank before? Also i read that Turkish property shouldn’t be⁢ mortgaged. I also calculated that with 10 years loan, such option will cost me about︀ USD160k
Which cities you would︇ recommend in Turkey?
What about commercial real estate or manufacturing sites?

It seems it doubled everywhere or︋ I would say money lost a value drastically.

 

[DeepDrilling]

Why, it's sounds like a solid solution?

 

[JosephLL]

Is it really possible for a Turkish bank to issue a loan and take a‌ collateral in Poland??

 

[369]

First of all‌ after a high inflation there always comes a short pause before an even higher second‍ inflation will accure.Check history it always happened this way.
Secondly you take a loan not⁠ for 2-3 years but for 10.
We have stagflation which means costs of living is⁤ raising dramaticly so people won't be endless able to afford higher rent prices.Actually rent prices⁣ in poland are moving down.
Who normal is going to take a normal loan of⁢ 8-9% for a 250k+ property when he can't even collect interest in rent.
So all︀ what is left are the cheap loans which are holding current prices and pushing dumb︁ money into loans and real estate to which the professionals are selling and making a︂ killing
Now the next big point fitfor55 .Most real estates in poland need heavy improvement︃ over the next 6 years to meet the criteria they demand.Good luck in financing it︄ and taking the extra rent from people who are getting each month more poor.
Next should these cheap credits stop which it seems will end all programs in 2026 nobody︅ is going to buy any real estates at these prices with these high interest rates.So︆ the price has at one point to fall in the next years.
So if you︇ take a loan how much of the capital you think you paid in the first︈ 2-3 years ?
If the real estates drops by 30% are you able to pay︉ off the diffrence between the value of your real estate and amount of active loan︊ ?If you are not able to pay within 14 days after the letter from the︋ bank your real estate will be taken and auctioned.
Even today many people are not︌ able to pay their current mortage rates where government made that people don't need to︍ pay 4 of 12 rates per year (called mortage holiday) and there are hundred of︎ thousands of people using it.
They already announced this week this program will stop next️ year so the pressure goes even more up.
But yeah good luck milking the people‌ who get each month more poor,improve your real estate for fitfor55 and hope the real‍ estate prices won't drop.
bulding real estates costs on average 3500 pln per m2 where⁠ they are being sold for 15-20,000 PLN /m2 with the explanation of the high cost⁤ of building land since they artificaly short supplied it.
So what happens if they allow⁣ again to turn agricultur land into buildland and there will be no more shortage ?⁢
You still think people will pay 15-20k per m2 ?

 

[2fire]

So, you believe that we at the top of⁠ the price and EU will not cut the rates to safe economy again in the⁤ next few years?

 

[369]

Nominally we are not at the top because the second higher inflation is‍ coming and dumb money needs to flee.However it will push all assets up including real⁠ estate.
The more important question is how will real estate in poland perform compared to⁤ other assets.So i would prefer anytime to have an asset which will perform better and⁣ which you can make liquid more quickly.Sales of real estates in poland are massivly down⁢ because there are currently no cheap loans.Starting first high probably from second half of the︀ year.
Now i would not expect any significant lowering interest soon.It will raise in the︁ end breaking the econemy apart (small and middle class) .
Last time FED lowered interest︂ rates signaficant it was the beginning of real estate collapse

BlackRock gave a letter out︃ that financial institution hold currently arround 5% of all residential buildings which will increase to︄ 40% till 2030.
You think they are going to build them or going to catch︅ them at the bottom from foreclosures?
Also the magic numer 5% which is enough control︆ to initiate a deep steep downfall of prices.

 

[scooterguy]

What are the advantages of Turkish citizenship? It's not exactly a politically stable country, and‌ it is in an area with a relatively high probability of military conflict.

Wouldn't it‍ be better to have citizenship of a more irrelevant and 0% tax country like Vanuatu⁠ or some Caribbean island?

 

[12345]

Turkey is a real country unlike⁤ these caribbean islands, so for example if you go to a bank with turkish passport⁣ they might think it's real citizenship while with Caribbean passport they are problably aware of⁢ the program so they could deny opening account for such golden passport