Tracing money

[albright]

Hi guys,

Bit of a strange question perhaps, but I've been wondering recently if there are known lengths that authorities will go to in order to trace the origin of money back to someone.

Take this example:

--

Person A is the sole owner of UK Company A

Person A wants to reduce their company taxes, but let's assume they aren't bothered about reducing their personal taxes (for the purposes of this example).

Person A sets up an offshore company using darks (Person B), then sets up an EMI for that company (Company B).

Company B invoices Company A for some digital services.

Person A withdraws cash from Company B EMI via ATM machine.

Person A deposits cash into personal bank account.

--

In this case, the money hasn't travelled very far, but is it far enough to not be traced? Is it really necessary to go to a further level - perhaps introducing another dark Person C so its Company A > Company B > Person C > Person A?

Whether there is 1 dark involved or multiple darks involved, technically the path from one to another could be traced however long the chain gets, right? Is the first example sufficient enough?

Thanks in advance

 

[stealth accounts]

The government hasn't got the manpower nor the will to research every tax fraud case they can get their hands on. Also they are limited in the measures they can take to trace the money properly.

Everything comes down to the amount of money that you intend to transfer on a monthly basis. Also important: country of incorporation for company B?

 

[albright]

Hey @stealth accounts thanks for the response. I guess what I'm asking is whether or not you could comfortably just get your dark company (or person?) to charge the legit company for services, then withdraw this from an ATM and manually deposit it in your personal account.

I get that you might possibly risk some personal tax liability, but in terms of tracing what you've done, because the other company or person involved is actually non-existent, does this make it sufficient? Or, could the government see that company A (legit) paid company B (dark) via an EMI, then see that someone has withdrawn cash from the EMI, then trace that cash if it was immediately deposited into Person A's legit bank account? I'm guessing they could, but do they have the means or will to do so - particularly if it's tens of thousands and not hundreds of thousands.

If Company B is dark, how important is it which country they are incorporated in?

 

[stealth accounts]

I don't get why you would deposit the withdrawn cash into a personal account, but you probably have your reasons for that. Look, I'm probably not the right person to ask because I'm overly cautious and the things I classify as a risk is probably not a risk with the amount you consider on transferring.

To be short: yes they have the ability to trace the money. Your dark details are stored with the offshore agent and the EMI. IF these institutions get an official request from LE (court order) they will hand over the data and they have the measures to find out that the person doesn't exist. But LE is heavily limited by their resources (money) and laws & regulations that are set out to protect the people. If the EMI, legit corporation and dark corporation all reside in a different country than it requires a lot of international cooperation to establish a case and this will take up a lot of their recourses. The IRS has a budget and they aren't going to waste it on someone who is transferring an extra 50.000 usd a year. 'Fraud' cases are very hard to pursue (take years) and the conviction rate is relatively very low so pursuing said person would probably mean a loss of a couple of million for LE. They have better things to do.

 

[negon]

You want to make use of VPS and some sort of tunneling when you connect to the VPS. From there you setup the companhy, EMI and what else you need in order to receive the money! Then you do a similar setup just with a NEW SETUP to setup the second company with darks, emi etc. - now you make sure the VPS and / or tunnel you rae using is destroyed in the world wide web. You want to make use of clouds for that purpose or some of the very few available real offshore VPS's.

That's how you can forget about tax authorities, CRS and all this s**t! When the day comes where you want to spend the money you hold in the EMI's or even bank accounts (complicated but well possible to do) then you either travel to a destination to where you get your debit card send, you may spend there some weeks for this to work.

OR you make use of a mail forwarding service where you can pickup the card, don't get it send to you! You want to visit the service provider and pick up the package. You want to get that somewhere far away from you even in another country.

So you can be sure nothing goes wrong. If you have large (really large amounts) you want to setup the whole thing different, but it's even more costly and complicated and I won't reveal how to do that here since it's already going far to wide.

Think out of the box, do proper research when you do things and don't fall for cheap and shitty solutions, that the key to success in all of this.

You may alreayd have seen the difference with the simplest account opening when somone that knows his stuff do it and if you do it yourself, you need to learn and try, retry and try again to be good in setting this up.

 

[fanban]

At the end of this change the guy will be asked where all this money in cash comes from that he put into the bank account! So your entire setup will not work long term. You need to wash the money and to put the money into the banking system over time.

This you can do in several ways, most often you need a lot of people to send you money to the same account for stuff you sell private and which are not taxed. However, you can't do this with several millions but you can do this with up to 500K euro over a year or two which still can rise some RED lights but if you can explain yourself it's not a problem.