Thailand tax update 20/11/23

[Wellington]

Simple loop︄ hole is if you have a wife - you are free to gift up to︅ 20mb (or might be 40mb) a year.

Doesn’t delineate whether onshore or offshore.

Couple of million baht‍ is barely any annual tax to be fair..

If crypto just do P2P with the⁠ Russians… loose a % sure.

 

[unth72]

100%

True, my main concern is bringing myself to their attention⁠ so I will hold off until there's some kind of clarity.

I wouldn't need to⁤ report anything until March 2025 anyway so it's not like there's any kind of rush.⁣ Maybe they will clarify by then but based on the way they run this place⁢ anything's possible.

I don't mind paying a small amount, it's the larger amounts when the︀ 35% kicks in that I'm more concerned about.

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

The number of photoshopped statements showing 'property sales' or 'inheritances' is gonna be off the‌ charts next year.

On another note, I'm considering that if you spend five months in‍ Thailand per calendar year and the rest traveling, you might be able to continue as⁠ before. I don't believe the revenue department has enough manpower to monitor if you have⁤ another place you 'consider home' outside of Thailand. Simultaneously, I doubt they have the resources⁣ to police people sending themselves $5k every month.

If there's one thing I've learned about⁢ this country it's that it's very mismanaged, and people don't really want to work much,︀ so most folks might be able to finesse it without much issue.

Time will tell,︁ though.

 

[jafo]

100% this!
Even the most ardent tax larcenists don't have this kind of energy!⁠ If the tax authorities (e.g. in Europe or other plantations) are earning €6K per month,⁤ they sure as H3ll aren't looking for ANYONE making less than that! Psychologically it's a⁣ very tough hurdle to clear. 😉

 

[Mercury]

The only criteria‍ to be considered tax resident is remaining 180+ days per calendar year in Thailand.
Why would they care whether you have home or are tax resident in other countries?

 

[Wellington]

It's only tax residence for 'remittance bases' if 'not savings'.

We've been grandfathered in.

If you are spending money you are earning, i'd be more worried about getting into issues‌ over not having a local work permit.

Owning/Managing a company FYI is 'ok-grey' but the‍ Thai's don't want to enforce against that (either domestic or international) as they'd loose a⁠ lot of VAT revenues off the bat.

And for remittance based, there's NUMEROUS ways to⁤ get around remittance tax (if income).
The easiest being 'gifting' from overseas to wife account⁣ on-shore (tax exempt) up to 20mTHB.

Other-ways include paying companies overseas arms (or international companies⁢ for a domestic service - insurance for example, my kids was 100,000 THB per year︀ on-shore now going through the overseas arm of the insurance company - price comes down,︁ kids insurance covered, no remittance. (white)

Then there's other ways 'pre-purchase vouchers, etc overseas' for︂ expenditure in Thailand. (grey)

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

From what I can gather this seems to⁠ be the case. There's no 'center of life' test in Thailand.

This is what I meant by 'The number of photoshopped statements showing 'property sales' or⁢ 'inheritances' is gonna be off the charts next year.'

• When did you get this money?︀ Oh, you know, I sold this flat in 2017 and it's been sitting in cash︁ since then; see this bank statement as proof.
  

True, but isn't this the case for 90%+ of︄ the Elite holders? Most farangs under retirement age are working in Thailand illegally, albeit not︅ for a local company.

word

Interesting ty

 

[Wellington]

Bit more complicated than that, they have CRS information, so if there's a lot of funds‍ coming in but no records provided by CRS counterparties to support they will then query,⁠ it's then on you the onus to provide documented evidence.

Photoshopped records and the AMOL/Revenue⁤ department is a very risky move... In Thailand.

It's not illegal in︀ Thailand to be a shareholder/director of a overseas company whereby you direct (digital) the process︁ of the companies through local (operational side overseas).

It's however illegal to work... without a︂ permit... directing is technically working... but it's a small amount of time compared to say︃ programming etc..

I'm elite for example, i am also a director (one of the directors)︄ and sometimes i have to be in discussions/board/other most of the time i don't but︅ follow progress digitally of the company and think of ideas - but it's unpaid (as︆ a shareholder - dividends on revenues).

 

[Amandograde]

Making matters worse than that would be having hot CRS accounts with lots of⁤ incoming transfers there which are being forwarded to Thailand. Then you might end up being⁣ auto rekt.

 

[Wellington]

CRS provides account value at time opposed to individual⁠ transactions.

I don't hold funds in the traditional banking system (as most expats have been⁤ de-banked and the few banks i did have in Europe for example i've closed over⁣ the years), so for me i have to point to the record source of where⁢ funds are held (veritable) as long as that can be done shouldn't be any issues︀ for claims of x funds deposited to x bank then transferred to x domestic bank.︁

 

[Amandograde]

gotcha.
But how about like lets say holding some Thai stocks on the set and just⁢ live off these dividends and avoid any future transfer?
It looks like the only tax︀ due would be the 10% wht and no filing required.

 

[Wellington]

With the world outlook, i wouldn't be buying Thai stocks lol.

War, societal breakdown,⁤ asset seizures/freezes, political persecution, race persecution etc... and that's just on the Western side.

 

[Amandograde]

what that just western side means? due to pressure from the West?⁠

imo these issues are pretty much everywhere present or at least i dont know a⁤ country/place where such a thing is not an issue.
Thats why one should not buy⁣ into this with a big portion, just like with a few % nw (which then⁢ ideally covers living costs) and call it a day with the added benefit of taxes︀ being auto paid etc.

E.g. Switzerland just shafted credit suisse shareholders this year, pretty much︁ on an arbitrarily basis with all shareholder rights basically going out the window over night.︂ Widespread asset freezes throughout the west is also happily executed.
Would totally expect Singapore and︃ HK to pick the China side should the Us start their next (unsuccessful) venture in︄ the region, which then would not look good for Western passport holders banking there etc..︅

 

[Wellington]

I told my friends to get out of CS about 6-12 months before,︂ most took notice and did ok, neighbour didn't he lost a considerable amount holding their︃ bonds.

I'd hazard a guess Singapore.

 

[Amandograde]

yah, the west is pretty much over regarding rule of law.⁠ Come an "emergency" which as you said can even be seen before, the law goes⁤ out the window pretty quickly.

 

[Wellington]

On that part rule of law - they voted⁠ to not bail out banks (wise choice considering the size of the population and the⁤ funds predominantly being non Swiss) - Swiss gov pressured by the Fed and in part⁣ supported by the Fed ignored that and went ahead because it could of caused a⁢ cascading effect

 

[jafo]

Being around "men of law" in my childhood, I⁠ figured this out pretty quickly and it's always great when the Joker reminds us of⁤ it:

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

Sure but theres ways around this iykwim

Hey this is TH,⁣ who doesnt like a but or risk? ange¤%&

TLDR of this story for me... I refuse⁢ to pay. Want my money? Come get it

 

[Amandograde]

defo, esp for those who bought⁠ the expensive visa. Thats like more than enough "tax" paid upfront covering the average lifetime⁤ tax payments of maybe a 100 ppl.

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

Try 1ok imo; most Thais don't pay taxes or get paid too⁠ little so their tax obligation is low.

Want me to pay taxes? Eliminate the two-tier⁤ payment system and let me use public services. Additionally, make Elite holders elegible for citizenship⁣ instead of forever tourists.