Chances are he will have to pay lawyers (at least) in 3 different countries.
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Tax resident of nowhere while staying in EU?
- Thread starter yngmind
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I mean you are legally not even close to come into the tax net in any of the 3 countries in this situation. But yes, sometimes, tax authorities go after you anyway, so key is to avoid the countries with the most aggressive tax authorities like Spain or the Netherlands. And also if you are a known/famous person and/or have a large fortune, then the risk is much higher.
But ideally for the regular Joe digital nomad type, none of the three countries would even know︀ of Joe's earnings that can be in a business outside the EU, and there would︁ be no requirements for tax reporting as Joe wouldnt be a tax resident in any︂ of the countries. It wouldnt even show up on the radar of the tax agencies,︃ unless they read in the news about Joe.
So if you meet the two criteria,︄ not showing up on the radar and also being completely legal, I wouldnt worry too︅ much.
But ideally for the regular Joe digital nomad type, none of the three countries would even know︀ of Joe's earnings that can be in a business outside the EU, and there would︁ be no requirements for tax reporting as Joe wouldnt be a tax resident in any︂ of the countries. It wouldnt even show up on the radar of the tax agencies,︃ unless they read in the news about Joe.
So if you meet the two criteria,︄ not showing up on the radar and also being completely legal, I wouldnt worry too︅ much.
Not necessarily. You can have problems with countries like Estonia. They don't have many expats , or foreign Holiday owners , so you can easily get interest by authorities
I would say in big countries like France, Italy you can more easily live in a shadow︀ if you are not resident or citizen
Also is not cheap to live in 3︁ different countries
I would say in big countries like France, Italy you can more easily live in a shadow︀ if you are not resident or citizen
Also is not cheap to live in 3︁ different countries
Fair point, but Estonian authorities arent like dicks. And unlike many other EU countries rules are short and quite clear. They say: "To determine a person’s place of residence, it is important that the place of residence would be permanent and lasting, i.e. it must be apparent that the person has made preparations or efforts for making the place of residence permanently available for himself or herself all the time, not︀ acquired for the purpose of short-term dwelling (a holiday trip, a business trip, a study︁ trip, training courses, etc.). Possession of property (as well as an immovable) in Estonia itself︂ does not make a person a resident for the purposes of the Income Tax Act."︃
A 4 month's stay is clearly not permanent and lasting. But yeah, a small place︄ isnt great for the "radar" aspect.
Mm, but there authorities can be dicks, and being a︇ tax resident in France or Italy but living in the shadows is a whole different︈ risk level.
A 4 month's stay is clearly not permanent and lasting. But yeah, a small place︄ isnt great for the "radar" aspect.
Mm, but there authorities can be dicks, and being a︇ tax resident in France or Italy but living in the shadows is a whole different︈ risk level.
Have you ever been in court in any of the so called Baltic countries? Their nonchalance in ignoring their own laws is amazing, especially when there is money to be grabbed.
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@JohnnyDoe ”“ Your #1 Source for Guidance in Different Offshore Fields
Many of these are from the OECD DTA template︀ agreement used by most countries, they are not non sense (sadly). Depending on the country︁ challenging your residency, they may ask for a TRC of the country where you claim︂ residency and then can compare, as per the DTA between the 2 countries, in which︃ of the 2 countries you have the most ties. And I guess this is just︄ one way they can try to screw with you.
Hello everyone,
I thought this could be a suitable space to discuss a kind of similar matter.
I am thinking of buying a small real estate in the EU, outside the country of my tax residence. I plan to spend there a couple of months per year, but it will be available for me all year round. I have not decided on a country yet. From your experience, in which EU countries do I run a risk of becoming a tax resident just because of owning the real estate and spending some time there? And conversely, in which EU countries this is definitely ok, no︀ tax residence is triggered?
I thought this could be a suitable space to discuss a kind of similar matter.
I am thinking of buying a small real estate in the EU, outside the country of my tax residence. I plan to spend there a couple of months per year, but it will be available for me all year round. I have not decided on a country yet. From your experience, in which EU countries do I run a risk of becoming a tax resident just because of owning the real estate and spending some time there? And conversely, in which EU countries this is definitely ok, no︀ tax residence is triggered?
If you pay your taxes in your country of residence and only spend a couple of months per year in the small real estate for holidays you have nothing to worry. Any EU country is fine.
In fact, the EU is a very good place for holidays, and its only future is as an amusement park for non-Europeans.
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@JohnnyDoe ”“ Your #1 Source for Guidance in Different Offshore Fields
No, only had girlfriends in the baltics, never dealt with their legal systems. So probably optimised my experience that way.
But the three countries are quite different, have you been in court in Estonia, how was that/what happened?
But the three countries are quite different, have you been in court in Estonia, how was that/what happened?
Makes sense.
Unfortunately court records are not available to the public.
The 3 countries work and think the same way, and will grab your money at the first occasion. Even more so now that they have to pay higher electricity bills and their population is constantly shrinking.
Depressing places.
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@JohnnyDoe ”“ Your #1 Source for Guidance in Different Offshore Fields
DTAs cannot introduce new tax liabilities. I wish we didn't have to explain such basic facts over and over again.
Doesn't really matter. There are a bunch of︀ countries where it would trigger tax residency and a bunch of countries where it wouldn't.︁
But that doesn't really matter if you live in a treaty country and have strong︂ ties to that country. The treaty will protect you.
But that doesn't really matter if you live in a treaty country and have strong︂ ties to that country. The treaty will protect you.
Correct.
You are also Estonian tax resident if you declare your residency there. No need to spend time there.
But otherwise it seems to be days only, mostly.
No, most of them are residency and/or days spent and/or habitual abode, the rules are quite similar to︀ e.g. Germany.
You are confusing this with their strict rules for getting out of the︁ tax net again (which usually only kick in after X years of living in the︂ country and/or having citizenship).
For example, I believe you usually cannot own Scandinavian real estate︃ in your own name if you want to be considered non-resident for tax purposes and︄ you are a citizen who has lived there for 10+ years (unless you move to︅ a treaty country).
But buying real estate in Scandinavia wouldn't make you tax resident by︆ itself if you don't live in it yourself.
A key to︊ an apartment triggers tax residency because it means you have a residence there (whether declared︋ or not).
The other factors don't trigger tax residency, but they can be used to︌ argue you have "habitual abode" in Germany (=more than just a temporary visit). So it︍ is taken into account to find out what the intention of your stay was -︎ is it your home or are you just visiting? There is no way to become️ a German tax resident just because you have a German golf club membership and gym subscription if you never spend time there.
They're not that different? They just typically have stricter rules for their citizenships, similar to what the Nordic countries have, but usually for everyone who has lived there for 10+ years, not only based on citizenship.
Exactly, like I said.
You are also Estonian tax resident if you declare your residency there. No need to spend time there.
But otherwise it seems to be days only, mostly.
No, most of them are residency and/or days spent and/or habitual abode, the rules are quite similar to︀ e.g. Germany.
You are confusing this with their strict rules for getting out of the︁ tax net again (which usually only kick in after X years of living in the︂ country and/or having citizenship).
For example, I believe you usually cannot own Scandinavian real estate︃ in your own name if you want to be considered non-resident for tax purposes and︄ you are a citizen who has lived there for 10+ years (unless you move to︅ a treaty country).
But buying real estate in Scandinavia wouldn't make you tax resident by︆ itself if you don't live in it yourself.
A key to︊ an apartment triggers tax residency because it means you have a residence there (whether declared︋ or not).
The other factors don't trigger tax residency, but they can be used to︌ argue you have "habitual abode" in Germany (=more than just a temporary visit). So it︍ is taken into account to find out what the intention of your stay was -︎ is it your home or are you just visiting? There is no way to become️ a German tax resident just because you have a German golf club membership and gym subscription if you never spend time there.
They're not that different? They just typically have stricter rules for their citizenships, similar to what the Nordic countries have, but usually for everyone who has lived there for 10+ years, not only based on citizenship.
Exactly, like I said.
Most likely they will not see that you are a resident.
But they could look at ATM withdrawals, foreign bank transaction records, rental contracts, flight passenger records, and possibly cellphone location records, etc.
There is a lot a state can do to investigate someone.
But a non-citizen that is not a criminal and not ultra wealthy/famous, that just spends a lot of time in an EU country under the radar... nah, that s unlikely︀ to be discovered.
Unless there is an annoyed neighbour or scorned ex or something that︁ makes a report to authorities. But even then authorities may be too lazy to do︂ anything.
But they could look at ATM withdrawals, foreign bank transaction records, rental contracts, flight passenger records, and possibly cellphone location records, etc.
There is a lot a state can do to investigate someone.
But a non-citizen that is not a criminal and not ultra wealthy/famous, that just spends a lot of time in an EU country under the radar... nah, that s unlikely︀ to be discovered.
Unless there is an annoyed neighbour or scorned ex or something that︁ makes a report to authorities. But even then authorities may be too lazy to do︂ anything.
In terms of flagging - what if you theorethically fly︁ in from one country and leave from another? Is there any cross-EU sharing of information︂ on that?
Foreign bank records - how could they access that?
Cellphone location - what︃ if you use a foreign telephone number?
Foreign bank records - how could they access that?
Cellphone location - what︃ if you use a foreign telephone number?
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