Strategic Setup of Bank / Company to Off Ramp Crypto Profits

[Woodygoat]

Hello.

I just joined this lovely forum, i have been a long time lurker but finally opted for the golden boy membership😎

I want to explain a bit about my situation and I'm hoping to get as much insight as possible and suggestions on what to do.

I live in Scandinavia. I hold a Scandinavian passport. In 2021 i bought a bunch of Crypto Currency. From a small exchange sort of like local otc btc provider. Back then it was very unclear how to treat all this with documentation etc. Long story short i declared half of it to the government, I have declared that on a yearly tax return since. But the other half i have not declared and that is partly because the funds have been moved and i have bought NFTs i have sold those i have had multiple meta wallets, bit stamp accounts and various exchanges that i no longer have access to due to using a proton email that i lost access to and also phone with 2FA etc. i also had a account thorugh FTX as well. I have essentially created a lot of unnecessary problems and headaches for myself. But this is the situation for better or for worse.

-So right now we are talking about a value of around 150k euro, I'm hoping that it will double i have a target around 300k that i would like to cash out.

So ofc i have a problem with SoF. What i could provide is my bank statements simply showing an amount of 80k eur and 15k eur going out from my personal account. But i don't have like an exchange showing that i received this ammount in euro, as i just gave the guy my wallet address and that is like 1000s wallets ago and I'm sure multiple different cryptos and nfts and god knows what else. Sorting the Tx history would be a nightmare.

But what i can show is money going out from my account. That would essentially be the SoF info i have available.

So what are my goals? I want to purchase real estate in Croatia. So i need the money in Euro, i need a bank that i can cash out too. I cannot pay taxes or declare this in my home country and i want to keep it as anonymous as possible, create a structure that would work for that. Im not saying bulletproof because i know there is risk especially in the euro zone.


For the record i have no problem paying taxes where the money lands in terms of corporate tax or otherwise, ofc i would like to pay as little as possible. I would also like the possibility of accessing a mortgage based on the capital i have, like a real estate mortgage etc so i could scale up my investments over time.

Essentially what i have gathered based on reading etc. i would have a couple opportunities:

Establish a company in either Cyprus, UAE (but i gather that is not that hot anymore) or Offshore and then use that as a holding structure and cash out and then form maybe a subsidiary company in Europe? Perhaps go right for Cyprus right away. Should i consider a new residency or passport somewhere to hide my identity since this would essentially be a form of tax evasion. I heard that RAKBANK has accounts that you can swap between Crypto and FIAT directly, but I'm sure the TX history and SoF would be problematic there as well.

What are my options here, what's my exposure is there any way to "un-fxck" this in the best possible way?

I really appreciate this forum, the people in here and the willingness to help!


I'm truly sorry if I'm repeating something that has already been asked, i mange a couple forums myself and know how it is when the newbies comes in asking the same old questions over and over.

Last edited: Jan 5, 2025

 

[daniels27]

Woodygoat said:
I live in Scandinavia. I hold a Scandinavian passport. In 2021 i bought a bunch of Crypto Currency. From a small exchange sort of like local otc btc provider. Back then it was very unclear how to treat all this with documentation etc. Long story short i declared half of it to the government, I have declared that on a yearly tax return since. But the other half i have not declared and that is partly because the funds have been moved and i have bought NFTs i have sold those i have had multiple meta wallets, bit stamp accounts and various exchanges that i no longer have access to due to using a proton email that i lost access to and also phone with 2FA etc. i also had a account thorugh FTX as well. I have essentially created a lot of unnecessary problems and headaches for myself. But this is the situation for better or for worse.
Click to expand...

A bit messy, but some people like it messy. A personal taste.

Woodygoat said:
-So right now we are talking about a value of around 150k euro, I'm hoping that it will double i have a target around 300k that i would like to cash out.

So ofc i have a problem with SoF. What i could provide is my bank statements simply showing an amount of 80k eur and 15k eur going out from my personal account. But i don't have like an exchange showing that i received this ammount in euro, as i just gave the guy my wallet address and that is like 1000s wallets ago and I'm sure multiple different cryptos and nfts and god knows what else. Sorting the Tx history would be a nightmare.
Click to expand...

You have proof of your funds for 95k and you have 150k. You can cash out the 150k. You can technically cash it out. The main question is how many gains have you reported to the government. Let that be X.

You sent 95k
You gained X
You have 150k
= You are missing proof of 55k-X.

You can cash out the 150k in two parts, maybe 75 each and show the proper documentation to two different banks. Better for your sleep would be to declare taxes on the full 55k gained. Trust me, you sleep better.

Woodygoat said:
Establish a company in either Cyprus, UAE (but i gather that is not that hot anymore) or Offshore and then use that as a holding structure and cash out and then form maybe a subsidiary company in Europe? Perhaps go right for Cyprus right away. Should i consider a new residency or passport somewhere to hide my identity since this would essentially be a form of tax evasion. I heard that RAKBANK has accounts that you can swap between Crypto and FIAT directly, but I'm sure the TX history and SoF would be problematic there as well.
Click to expand...

What is the purpose of this? We are talking about 300k. Of course, you can run a company there without any economic substance and then be sure that the Scandinavian government will come pay you a nice visit. If it was more, you could have opened a company with employees there etc. But then you still have the CFC problem:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/eu/controlled-foreign-corporation-cfc-rules-europe-2021/
And UAE with 9% tax?

My advice is to move where you want to live. If this is Scandinavia. You are a lucky man. At 55k gains over 4 years, you get much more in social welfare than what you can ever pay in taxes. Have you ever considered what child daycare would cost you on the free market? You get this for free!

 

[rss]

Woodygoat said:
So what are my goals? I want to purchase real estate in Croatia. So i need the money in Euro, i need a bank that i can cash out too. I cannot pay taxes or declare this in my home country and i want to keep it as anonymous as possible, create a structure that would work for that.
Click to expand...

Not gonna happen my friend.

 

[Woodygoat]

daniels27 said:
A bit messy, but some people like it messy. A personal taste.


You have proof of your funds for 95k and you have 150k. You can cash out the 150k. You can technically cash it out. The main question is how many gains have you reported to the government. Let that be X.

You sent 95k
You gained X
You have 150k
= You are missing proof of 55k-X.

You can cash out the 150k in two parts, maybe 75 each and show the proper documentation to two different banks. Better for your sleep would be to declare taxes on the full 55k gained. Trust me, you sleep better.


What is the purpose of this? We are talking about 300k. Of course, you can run a company there without any economic substance and then be sure that the Scandinavian government will come pay you a nice visit. If it was more, you could have opened a company with employees there etc. But then you still have the CFC problem:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/eu/controlled-foreign-corporation-cfc-rules-europe-2021/
And UAE with 9% tax?

My advice is to move where you want to live. If this is Scandinavia. You are a lucky man. At 55k gains over 4 years, you get much more in social welfare than what you can ever pay in taxes. Have you ever considered what child daycare would cost you on the free market? You get this for free!
Click to expand...

So you think that the Cyprus government would report the company or its activity to the Scandinavian government? Or that there is somehow a reporting system I'm not seeing or thinking about?

So i don't want access to this money or plan to take it out, i mean i was thinking of building a little BRRRR real estate portfolio over time, i could perhaps get some dividends paid to European personal account that you can get in Croatia after buying your first piece of real estate.


So my problem is : Bank wants to see transaction history of crypto as well, start to finish, so i don't think it would work and crypto your suppose to report yearly and since this was in 2021 going back and reporting that now would cause a internal alarm to go OFF at our IRS essentially and you would get a magnifying glass up your a*s.

I would never put my kids in free child daycare either, same as i would pay for surgery at a private clinic and so on, just because its free don't mean its good.

 

[Woodygoat]

rss said:
Not gonna happen my friend.
Click to expand...

what's not gonna happen my friend.

 

[rss]

Woodygoat said:
what's not gonna happen my friend.
Click to expand...

Creating a complex structure to cash out 150k and try to buy real estate while staying anonymous, I just don't see the point.

Why not try and create a solid source of fund document for what you have now and forget about staying anonymous?
How much money do you have in your bank account available right now? We can probably figure something out without creating any complex company structure.

 

[daniels27]

Woodygoat said:
So you think that the Cyprus government would report the company or its activity to the Scandinavian government? Or that there is somehow a reporting system I'm not seeing or thinking about?
Click to expand...

It is EU. Unless you are in Norway or Svalbard.

Woodygoat said:
So i don't want access to this money or plan to take it out, i mean i was thinking of building a little BRRRR real estate portfolio over time, i could perhaps get some dividends paid to European personal account that you can get in Croatia after buying your first piece of real estate.

So my problem is : Bank wants to see transaction history of crypto as well, start to finish, so i don't think it would work and crypto your suppose to report yearly and since this was in 2021 going back and reporting that now would cause a internal alarm to go OFF at our IRS essentially and you would get a magnifying glass up your a*s.
Click to expand...

150k is nothing. Just spend it for your surgery and childcare:

Woodygoat said:
I would never put my kids in free child daycare either, same as i would pay for surgery at a private clinic and so on, just because its free don't mean its good.
Click to expand...

 

[fighthorse]

I don't know which Scandinavian country you live in, but you can check my posts/threads about my tax scandal in Denmark, and I'm not the only one here on the forum with similar experiences.

I can tell you that you're in serious trouble if the Danish Tax Agency (Skat) finds out that you've had multiple wallets, or if you voluntarily disclose it to them. What follows may sound like something out of a TV crime drama, but it's as true as I'm writing it here. I've been dealing with Skat for the past four years, and they never give up. Legal and accounting costs have already reached around €125K, and we're nowhere near finished!

As soon as they see what you've done, they'll start piecing together a story to charge you with money laundering, tax evasion, and possibly even seek to imprison you on the grounds of suspected flight risk. These people (Skat, the Danish state) have hired immigrants from Pakistan to pursue Danish citizens, looking for the smallest mistakes, even in the tiniest businesses, to blow up the case and prosecute both the individual and their business personally. These immigrants are used as a showcase for Denmark's supposed success in integrating them. An immigrant who finds a suspected tax evader and proves that they've cheated the state out of even a single krone is rewarded handsomely by the system!

Truth and fairness are no obstacle, they fabricate massive lies, and it's up to you as a citizen to prove them wrong. This can cost you a fortune in legal fees.

So, my best advice is this: if you have crypto that hasn't been reported to Skat, either keep it this way or move out of that godforsaken country before you end up with an immigrant from Skat breathing down your neck.

They are not to be taken lightly.

 

[Woodygoat]

daniels27 said:
It is EU. Unless you are in Norway or Svalbard.


150k is nothing. Just spend it for your surgery and childcare:
Click to expand...

150k is nothing is a pretty stupid statement it can easily be leveraged in BRRRR real estate model if you know what your doing you can 10x that in 5 years.


I don't need surgery or childcare I'm buttoned up there 😉

How would Norway or Svalbard change the situation ?

 

[daniels27]

Woodygoat said:
150k is nothing is a pretty stupid statement it can easily be leveraged in BRRRR real estate model if you know what your doing you can 10x that in 5 years.
Click to expand...

Correct. Get the money out, pay taxes on it and then brrrr you go! Why turn the pennies of the tax on 55k if you can grow 10x while sleeping well?

You also would not play lottery if the winnings are low. Like you also don't want to get caught robbing a bank when there are only pens to take.

But my statement was actually something else. If you have 10m off-ramping is an issue. At 150k, you just leave it and spend it over the next two years with a crypto card it by withdrawing cash. No need to bother to much.

Woodygoat said:
How would Norway or Svalbard change the situation ?
Click to expand...

It is not EU. Not much changes though. Svalbard tax lower taxes.

Last edited: Jan 6, 2025

 

[Woodygoat]

fighthorse said:
I don't know which Scandinavian country you live in, but you can check my posts/threads about my tax scandal in Denmark, and I'm not the only one here on the forum with similar experiences.

I can tell you that you're in serious trouble if the Danish Tax Agency (Skat) finds out that you've had multiple wallets, or if you voluntarily disclose it to them. What follows may sound like something out of a TV crime drama, but it's as true as I'm writing it here. I've been dealing with Skat for the past four years, and they never give up. Legal and accounting costs have already reached around €125K, and we're nowhere near finished!

As soon as they see what you've done, they'll start piecing together a story to charge you with money laundering, tax evasion, and possibly even seek to imprison you on the grounds of suspected flight risk. These people (Skat, the Danish state) have hired immigrants from Pakistan to pursue Danish citizens, looking for the smallest mistakes, even in the tiniest businesses, to blow up the case and prosecute both the individual and their business personally. These immigrants are used as a showcase for Denmark's supposed success in integrating them. An immigrant who finds a suspected tax evader and proves that they've cheated the state out of even a single krone is rewarded handsomely by the system!

Truth and fairness are no obstacle, they fabricate massive lies, and it's up to you as a citizen to prove them wrong. This can cost you a fortune in legal fees.

So, my best advice is this: if you have crypto that hasn't been reported to Skat, either keep it this way or move out of that godforsaken country before you end up with an immigrant from Skat breathing down your neck.

They are not to be taken lightly.
Click to expand...

So sorry that happened to you. That sounds like a total nightmare!

I honestly didn't think it was gonna get this complicated, what started with a stupid decision turned into something way more complicated.

But i see people on her talking about darks and starting all kinds of companies with fake id's and such so I thought that maybe this was small potatoes guess i was very wrong.

Might be better off just giving the money away at this point

But yeah I'm not taking this lightly at all, my concern is - if i was to go back - change and declare it dating back several years I'm scared the same thing would happen, like you said i might get a guy with a microscope so far up my a*s going back 5-10 years looking through all financials and i mean who haven't made small mistakes here and there, that sounds super sketchy as well.

Guess the best way would be to just spend it through crypto cards etc. Not bulletproof but I guess better then cashing out

 

[Woodygoat]

daniels27 said:
Correct. Get the money out, pay taxes on it and then brrrr you go! Why turn the pennies of the tax on 55k if you can grow 10x while sleeping well?

You also would not play lottery if the winnings are low. Like you also don't want to get caught robbing a bank when there are only pens to take.

But my statement was actually something else. If you have 10m off-ramping is an issue. At 150k, you just leave it and spend it over the next two years with a crypto card it by withdrawing cash. No need to bother to much.


It is not EU. Not much changes though. Svalbard tax lower taxes.
Click to expand...

Yeah your reply makes sense now I think i missunderstood it initially.

 

[Woodygoat]

rss said:
Creating a complex structure to cash out 150k and try to buy real estate while staying anonymous, I just don't see the point.

Why not try and create a solid source of fund document for what you have now and forget about staying anonymous?
How much money do you have in your bank account available right now? We can probably figure something out without creating any complex company structure.
Click to expand...

I think i could get my hands on maybe 50-100k depending. Those would also come from crypto but I don't have any issues with source of funds on those. They are in a exchange and can be tracked easily. I could sell them and cash out.

what suggestions do you have ?

 

[aage]

rss said:
How much money do you have in your bank account available right now? We can probably figure something out without creating any complex company structure.
Click to expand...

Would be interested to know what you can suggest ?

to OP - as @fighthorse already explained and you confirmed your concerns are right and carefully planning is required, the slightest mistake can give you headache the rest of your live.

 

[rss]

Woodygoat said:
what suggestions do you have ?
Click to expand...

There are many options available, me daniels and many others have discussed it here a few days ago: https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...funds-no-tax-returns-looking-to-offramp.46869

I would strongly suggest to forget about all that real estate nonsense for now.

 

[rss]

aage said:
Would be interested to know what you can suggest ?
Click to expand...

I think this will work well in this specific scenario, 100k -> 250k is not uncommon in crypto these days: https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...-returns-looking-to-offramp.46869/post-335462

I would avoid NFTs unless you already own some expensive pieces (mid 5 figures and above).

 

[JackAlabama]

fighthorse said:
I don't know which Scandinavian country you live in, but you can check my posts/threads about my tax scandal in Denmark, and I'm not the only one here on the forum with similar experiences.

I can tell you that you're in serious trouble if the Danish Tax Agency (Skat) finds out that you've had multiple wallets, or if you voluntarily disclose it to them. What follows may sound like something out of a TV crime drama, but it's as true as I'm writing it here. I've been dealing with Skat for the past four years, and they never give up. Legal and accounting costs have already reached around €125K, and we're nowhere near finished!

As soon as they see what you've done, they'll start piecing together a story to charge you with money laundering, tax evasion, and possibly even seek to imprison you on the grounds of suspected flight risk. These people (Skat, the Danish state) have hired immigrants from Pakistan to pursue Danish citizens, looking for the smallest mistakes, even in the tiniest businesses, to blow up the case and prosecute both the individual and their business personally. These immigrants are used as a showcase for Denmark's supposed success in integrating them. An immigrant who finds a suspected tax evader and proves that they've cheated the state out of even a single krone is rewarded handsomely by the system!

Truth and fairness are no obstacle, they fabricate massive lies, and it's up to you as a citizen to prove them wrong. This can cost you a fortune in legal fees.

So, my best advice is this: if you have crypto that hasn't been reported to Skat, either keep it this way or move out of that godforsaken country before you end up with an immigrant from Skat breathing down your neck.

They are not to be taken lightly.
Click to expand...

damn thats the state of current affairs? Sounds like a real dystopian socialist hell hole.
I thought nothing surprises me in the eudssr really, but I stand corrected on a regular basis.

It really looks like europe is gonna have its own version of rhodesia and south africa in the near future.

 

[JackAlabama]

Woodygoat said:
Hello.

I just joined this lovely forum, i have been a long time lurker but finally opted for the golden boy membership😎

I want to explain a bit about my situation and I'm hoping to get as much insight as possible and suggestions on what to do.

I live in Scandinavia. I hold a Scandinavian passport. In 2021 i bought a bunch of Crypto Currency. From a small exchange sort of like local otc btc provider. Back then it was very unclear how to treat all this with documentation etc. Long story short i declared half of it to the government, I have declared that on a yearly tax return since. But the other half i have not declared and that is partly because the funds have been moved and i have bought NFTs i have sold those i have had multiple meta wallets, bit stamp accounts and various exchanges that i no longer have access to due to using a proton email that i lost access to and also phone with 2FA etc. i also had a account thorugh FTX as well. I have essentially created a lot of unnecessary problems and headaches for myself. But this is the situation for better or for worse.

-So right now we are talking about a value of around 150k euro, I'm hoping that it will double i have a target around 300k that i would like to cash out.

So ofc i have a problem with SoF. What i could provide is my bank statements simply showing an amount of 80k eur and 15k eur going out from my personal account. But i don't have like an exchange showing that i received this ammount in euro, as i just gave the guy my wallet address and that is like 1000s wallets ago and I'm sure multiple different cryptos and nfts and god knows what else. Sorting the Tx history would be a nightmare.

But what i can show is money going out from my account. That would essentially be the SoF info i have available.

So what are my goals? I want to purchase real estate in Croatia. So i need the money in Euro, i need a bank that i can cash out too. I cannot pay taxes or declare this in my home country and i want to keep it as anonymous as possible, create a structure that would work for that. Im not saying bulletproof because i know there is risk especially in the euro zone.


For the record i have no problem paying taxes where the money lands in terms of corporate tax or otherwise, ofc i would like to pay as little as possible. I would also like the possibility of accessing a mortgage based on the capital i have, like a real estate mortgage etc so i could scale up my investments over time.

Essentially what i have gathered based on reading etc. i would have a couple opportunities:

Establish a company in either Cyprus, UAE (but i gather that is not that hot anymore) or Offshore and then use that as a holding structure and cash out and then form maybe a subsidiary company in Europe? Perhaps go right for Cyprus right away. Should i consider a new residency or passport somewhere to hide my identity since this would essentially be a form of tax evasion. I heard that RAKBANK has accounts that you can swap between Crypto and FIAT directly, but I'm sure the TX history and SoF would be problematic there as well.

What are my options here, what's my exposure is there any way to "un-fxck" this in the best possible way?

I really appreciate this forum, the people in here and the willingness to help!


I'm truly sorry if I'm repeating something that has already been asked, i mange a couple forums myself and know how it is when the newbies comes in asking the same old questions over and over.
Click to expand...

well you most likely wont like this but as the common saying here goes applies once again: "leave the eu while you still can".
This includes: dont buy a real estate in croatia.

You can go back after they put away with their socialist dreams, which most likely wont take 80 years at this point but a mere 10years max.
Looking at the world, it seems the pendulum started swinging back (with eu being the last, so adding a few years here until they get it) with the overton window being quite open recently.

Should eu not be able to make a turn around (which is a possibility, but i think europe can achieve a turn around), you will be double happy to having left way before while it was still easy to do so.

 

[Woodygoat]

JackAlabama said:
well you most likely wont like this but as the common saying here goes applies once again: "leave the eu while you still can".
This includes: dont buy a real estate in croatia.

You can go back after they put away with their socialist dreams, which most likely wont take 80 years at this point but a mere 10years max.
Looking at the world, it seems the pendulum started swinging back (with eu being the last, so adding a few years here until they get it) with the overton window being quite open recently.

Should eu not be able to make a turn around (which is a possibility, but i think europe can achieve a turn around), you will be double happy to having left way before while it was still easy to do so.
Click to expand...

I agree and i was quite suprised, but after reading and carefully listening to advice i have completely disregarded my initial desires to sell and go into real estate in the EU.


So now my question is - Worldwide, would i have any solid options if i wanted to cash out say USA, i allready have a company in the USA that is doing fairly good. And i like the new administration that is coming, but im also open to world wide.

I have been starting to wonder if building a good SoF strategy would be the best option going forward and looking into how to do this properly.

 

[Woodygoat]

rss said:
I think this will work well in this specific scenario, 100k -> 250k is not uncommon in crypto these days: https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...-returns-looking-to-offramp.46869/post-335462

I would avoid NFTs unless you already own some expensive pieces (mid 5 figures and above).
Click to expand...

thank you for the reply.