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While it would be difficult to move the company out of France (you first need to liquidate︀ it which triggers capital gains or dividend taxation even without exit tax applicable in your︁ new residence country) you could maybe keep it in France without operations and use it︂ as a holding with subsidiary abroad or give a loan to your new company abroad.︃ But this should be discussed with a specialized lawyer first to avoid pitfalls.
What's the point of giving a loan if the loan has to be repaid to the FR holding?
He then will need to think where to establish a subsidiary that has 0% WHT on interests paid to FR
Also, if i'm not mistaken, French SAS isn't tax transparent so if he wants to take out money from SAS he would pay dividends tax even if he is not FR resident.
He then will need to think where to establish a subsidiary that has 0% WHT on interests paid to FR
Also, if i'm not mistaken, French SAS isn't tax transparent so if he wants to take out money from SAS he would pay dividends tax even if he is not FR resident.
Moving the capital abroad tax-free and use it for his relocated business without liquidating it first and triggering CGT.
WHT on dividends depends on on DTT between new country of residence and France. Can be as low as 0%.
https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/france/corporate/withholding-taxes
WHT on dividends depends on on DTT between new country of residence and France. Can be as low as 0%.
https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/france/corporate/withholding-taxes
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thomasparra
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I do not know where I will be based out from even looking at 1 year ahead from now. I know that in France as I have zero income I can claim some small including free healthcare as well as unemployment grants every month as long as my business is not generating money.
If I create a structure in Ireland, or Hong Kong I would still need to pay French tax on salary or income as long as I am a resident in France right? So aren't the benefits of creating a company overseas (supposedly low tax) are outweighed by the cons of added complexity and setting up costs versus creating it in France especially as again I do not believe I can generate more than 50k in my first year, 100k in my second year etc?
I do not know where︂ I will be based out from even looking at 1 year ahead from now. I︃ know that in France as I have zero income I can claim some small including︄ free healthcare as well as unemployment grants every month as long as my business is︅ not generating money.
If I create a structure in Ireland, or Hong Kong I would︆ still need to pay French tax on salary or income as long as I am︇ a resident in France right? So aren't the benefits of creating a company overseas (supposedly︈ low tax) are outweighed by the cons of added complexity and setting up costs versus︉ creating it in France especially as again I do not believe I can generate more︊ than 50k in my first year, 100k in my second year etc?
If I create a structure in Ireland, or Hong Kong I would︆ still need to pay French tax on salary or income as long as I am︇ a resident in France right? So aren't the benefits of creating a company overseas (supposedly︈ low tax) are outweighed by the cons of added complexity and setting up costs versus︉ creating it in France especially as again I do not believe I can generate more︊ than 50k in my first year, 100k in my second year etc?
It's more difficult than that because if you operate the offshore company from France, the company will be considered tax resident in France.
It's all about︁ short term vs long term.
In short term it will be easier to start with︂ a FR company
In the long term, especially if you expect your income to grow,︃ France will take a hefty chunk of money not mentioning the added bureaucracy, compliance and︄ so on.
If then you'll want to move the company it will be difficult because︅ of everything wrote before.
It's all about︁ short term vs long term.
In short term it will be easier to start with︂ a FR company
In the long term, especially if you expect your income to grow,︃ France will take a hefty chunk of money not mentioning the added bureaucracy, compliance and︄ so on.
If then you'll want to move the company it will be difficult because︅ of everything wrote before.
I'd suggest getting employed very briefly, then being put on 'chomage'
After that setup as micro entrepreneur. Corporate taxes aren't the issue in France, social taxes are the killer.
If you do micro entrepreneur after being unemployed you get like a year without social taxes.
In // look into setting up an SAS, which should enable you to pay yourself in dividends only, they are variations on setup.
If you want to keep your personal address out of it they are address providers.
With a little research you can limit your taxation for a few years, after that maybe you'll try and escape the 'vivre ensemble'
After that setup as micro entrepreneur. Corporate taxes aren't the issue in France, social taxes are the killer.
If you do micro entrepreneur after being unemployed you get like a year without social taxes.
In // look into setting up an SAS, which should enable you to pay yourself in dividends only, they are variations on setup.
If you want to keep your personal address out of it they are address providers.
With a little research you can limit your taxation for a few years, after that maybe you'll try and escape the 'vivre ensemble'
Just register a business in France, make expenses to reduce your tax base and pay tax.
It is not worth the risk to set up anything thing in Hong Kong if you live in France. In the future when you relocate out of EU you can always create a new business in Hong Kong and inform all your clients you move out and will bill with the new corporation.
France is even more strict than neighboring countries on anything from China (product import) and Hong Kong (tax evasion). Even if you would do any legal setup, which is unlikely since you don't have substance in︀ Hong Kong it will only raise red flags and cost you a lot to tax︁ consultants, lawyers and compliance.
Even using Hong Kong and paying taxes in France still raises︂ red flags, as why would you do that if there is no substance in Hong︃ Kong.
Focus on the business
It is not worth the risk to set up anything thing in Hong Kong if you live in France. In the future when you relocate out of EU you can always create a new business in Hong Kong and inform all your clients you move out and will bill with the new corporation.
France is even more strict than neighboring countries on anything from China (product import) and Hong Kong (tax evasion). Even if you would do any legal setup, which is unlikely since you don't have substance in︀ Hong Kong it will only raise red flags and cost you a lot to tax︁ consultants, lawyers and compliance.
Even using Hong Kong and paying taxes in France still raises︂ red flags, as why would you do that if there is no substance in Hong︃ Kong.
Focus on the business
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thomasparra
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Thanks a lot. Is there any minimum employment duration to benefit from "chomage"? I have never paid any taxes or worked in France so not sure if I can claim anything besides RSA and CMU today. I was actually thinking of starting a SASU instead of micro entrepreneur as I don't have to pay myself and I can avoid paying "cotisations sociales" if I understand correctly.
I also thought of the micro entrepreneur status, but I think that given the nature of my business, the clients would like to see an actual company as the service provider versus a micro entreprise (but I might be wrong)
Thanks for the info, I agree with that. I can easily see myself being stuck in the middle of red tape and HK/France governments asking for various different justifications and I don't want to get stuck into that, even if it means saving 20% in net income/post tax renumeration especially as my business will likely not generate a lot of revenue in the first 1 or 2 years.
Thanks a lot. Is there any minimum employment duration︁ to benefit from "chomage"? I have never paid any taxes or worked in France so︂ not sure if I can claim anything besides RSA and CMU today. I was actually︃ thinking of starting a SASU instead of micro entrepreneur as I don't have to pay︄ myself and I can avoid paying "cotisations sociales" if I understand correctly.
I also thought︅ of the micro entrepreneur status, but I think that given the nature of my business,︆ the clients would like to see an actual company as the service provider versus a︇ micro entreprise (but I might be wrong)
Thanks for the info, I agree with that. I can easily see myself being stuck in the middle of red tape and HK/France governments asking for various different justifications and I don't want to get stuck into that, even if it means saving 20% in net income/post tax renumeration especially as my business will likely not generate a lot of revenue in the first 1 or 2 years.
I also thought︅ of the micro entrepreneur status, but I think that given the nature of my business,︆ the clients would like to see an actual company as the service provider versus a︇ micro entreprise (but I might be wrong)
Thanks for the info, I agree with that. I can easily see myself being stuck in the middle of red tape and HK/France governments asking for various different justifications and I don't want to get stuck into that, even if it means saving 20% in net income/post tax renumeration especially as my business will likely not generate a lot of revenue in the first 1 or 2 years.
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thomasparra
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Would the micro entreprise status work as well? Can I receive money in USD/EUR/GBP from clients and pay my business suppliers/providers (who are individuals) in EUR, USD, GBP through a retail bank or a cost efficient payment processor like Payoneer/Wise? Or is it best to go with the SASU?
Would the micro entreprise status work as well? Can I receive money in USD/EUR/GBP from clients and pay my business suppliers/providers (who are individuals) in EUR, USD, GBP through a retail bank or a cost efficient payment processor like Payoneer/Wise? Or is it best to go with the SASU?
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thomasparra
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I am set on setting up the business in France as opposed to HK as I don't want to handle the complexity and the cost of being compliant and running the company in HK or other tax friendly region. I can always use the French SAS as a holding company or simply close the French company and open a new one overseas if I were to move out of France.
I am now debating microentreprise vs SASU. Can I make outsourced providers (suppliers) and clients abide by strict T&Cs with regard to business practices etc through a microentreprise?
I am set on setting up the business in France as opposed to︎ HK as I don't want to handle the complexity and the cost of being compliant️ and running the company in HK or other tax friendly region. I can always use the French SAS as a holding company or simply close the French company and open a new one overseas if I were to move out of France.
I am now debating microentreprise vs SASU. Can I make outsourced providers (suppliers) and clients abide by strict T&Cs with regard to business practices etc through a microentreprise?
I am now debating microentreprise vs SASU. Can I make outsourced providers (suppliers) and clients abide by strict T&Cs with regard to business practices etc through a microentreprise?
My understanding ( i could be wrong) is France’s territorial tax system for companies sounds great at first glance, meaning no company profits tax on foreign sourced income… but then they still double dip on tax by first charging a withholding tax on the corporate dividends to shareholders, and then personal tax on that same income to the shareholder. The there is the future where the France gov apparently wants a cashless society which is the great fear of French small business who survive via the cash economy. None of that seems very relevant to this thread though since the author is thinking to stay︀ for a year and exit as income starts to rise.
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thomasparra
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Thanks for the inputs everyone. I will start a company in France as it is easier for me, and the fastest solution. Also, my HK visa expires in May 2023 hence I want to avoid any issues pertaining to this in the future. If the company makes high revenue, I will consider keeping the French SAS as a holding to bill French clients or I will simply move overseas altogether (UAE, Asia etc)
Thanks for the inputs everyone. I will start a company in France as it is easier for me, and the fastest solution. Also, my HK visa expires in May 2023 hence I want to avoid any issues pertaining to this in the future. If the company makes high revenue, I will consider keeping the French SAS as a holding to bill French clients or I will simply move overseas altogether (UAE, Asia etc)
Down the line I'd recommend moving overseas. France is a tax nightmare, unsafe 7 filled with people who envy you as soon as you make more than︀ 1000 euro per month...
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