Setup for Crypto and Stock trading
- Thread starter Dom pedro
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So try some of the many others around here like @Gediminas , @Fred @AlexPCS and so on... there are many
If you look in the mentor group you can even find Interviews with some of them, means, you can see the person behind a service on a video!
If you look in the mentor group you can even find Interviews with some of them, means, you can see the person behind a service on a video!
Really funny guys -- I thought 'Im the only one' with these specific questions (thats at least the impression I got when I asked different advisors and they looked at me with big open eyes) and saw you in exact same place.
Great to brain-storm together 🙂
Basically the trade-off I see for now is the following:
x - US LLC pros:
- No accounting/audit as non US resident
- Stocks: Possibility to open IBKR account
- Possibility to open a bank account
x - US LLC cons:
- Crypto: Cant open Binance/FTX accounts and Binance US/FTX US not an option due to lack of important︀ features
- Stocks: If using US LLC to trade US stocks/options/futures, need to pay US︁ taxes as generated in the US
x - BVI pros:
- no accounting/audits
- Crypto:︂ Possibility to open FTX/Binance accounts (in theory)
- Stocks: IFFF one could open an IBKR︃ account (or with similar broker) profits would be tax free
x - BVI cons:
- Issue opening bank accounts (apart possibly with Signature/Silvergate Bank)
- Stocks: Potentially not be able︄ to open IBKR account
Are the above the trade-offs you'd also see?
I mean 'worst︅ case' I'd open BVI or similar for Crypto and US LLC for Crypto.
Problem here︆ may be that BVI wont be able to open an IBKR account and as such︇ would need an entity which would be able to do that....
Great to brain-storm together 🙂
Basically the trade-off I see for now is the following:
x - US LLC pros:
- No accounting/audit as non US resident
- Stocks: Possibility to open IBKR account
- Possibility to open a bank account
x - US LLC cons:
- Crypto: Cant open Binance/FTX accounts and Binance US/FTX US not an option due to lack of important︀ features
- Stocks: If using US LLC to trade US stocks/options/futures, need to pay US︁ taxes as generated in the US
x - BVI pros:
- no accounting/audits
- Crypto:︂ Possibility to open FTX/Binance accounts (in theory)
- Stocks: IFFF one could open an IBKR︃ account (or with similar broker) profits would be tax free
x - BVI cons:
- Issue opening bank accounts (apart possibly with Signature/Silvergate Bank)
- Stocks: Potentially not be able︄ to open IBKR account
Are the above the trade-offs you'd also see?
I mean 'worst︅ case' I'd open BVI or similar for Crypto and US LLC for Crypto.
Problem here︆ may be that BVI wont be able to open an IBKR account and as such︇ would need an entity which would be able to do that....
Thanks for the reply Phantom. That's almost exactly my line of thought so far. Only one correction: you will not pay taxes for capital gains in stocks and derivatives of US stocks, even with a US LLC. These gains are not counted as income coming from US. You will play however the 30% tax withholding from dividends received by US companies. The rules are the same as if you are trading with a personal account as a foreigner.
Wow DomP, excellent news with the US LLC for trading.
'I thought' as this income would be generated in the US︀ when trading with US stocks, options, futures etc, then it would be taxed...
The dividend︁ WHT (withholding tax) would not be an issue for me.
I assume with a US︂ LLC its quite possible to open brokerage accounts.
I got told that once the LLC︃ has an account, then it would be also possible to get a private account as︄ well.
Friends told me they prefer the Wyoming LLC, but I do not have a︅ view yet for that.
Do you by chance have an opinion regarding LLCs for trading︆ if there are better states to do so?
If stock, options, futures, FX work well︇ with US LLC, then trading Crypto would be best with BVI imho.
The reason for︈ that is that with BVI Ltd, onboarding on Crypto Exchanges should be no issue as︉ BVI structures are common.
Crypto Exchanges also onboard 'more offshore' entities like Seychelles etc, but︊ its nearly impossible to get bank accounts with them.
At Silvergate / Signature bank, they︋ offer Bank accounts for BVI Co -- I wrote to them and both confirmed they︌ do.
So, 'in theory' it seems, US LLC and BVI should be best combo ---︍ I'll go for that and give it a shot.
If there are any ideas what︎ to pay special attention too I'd be happy to hear to not make so many️ mistakes 🙂
'I thought' as this income would be generated in the US︀ when trading with US stocks, options, futures etc, then it would be taxed...
The dividend︁ WHT (withholding tax) would not be an issue for me.
I assume with a US︂ LLC its quite possible to open brokerage accounts.
I got told that once the LLC︃ has an account, then it would be also possible to get a private account as︄ well.
Friends told me they prefer the Wyoming LLC, but I do not have a︅ view yet for that.
Do you by chance have an opinion regarding LLCs for trading︆ if there are better states to do so?
If stock, options, futures, FX work well︇ with US LLC, then trading Crypto would be best with BVI imho.
The reason for︈ that is that with BVI Ltd, onboarding on Crypto Exchanges should be no issue as︉ BVI structures are common.
Crypto Exchanges also onboard 'more offshore' entities like Seychelles etc, but︊ its nearly impossible to get bank accounts with them.
At Silvergate / Signature bank, they︋ offer Bank accounts for BVI Co -- I wrote to them and both confirmed they︌ do.
So, 'in theory' it seems, US LLC and BVI should be best combo ---︍ I'll go for that and give it a shot.
If there are any ideas what︎ to pay special attention too I'd be happy to hear to not make so many️ mistakes 🙂
Btw guys, which State would you prefer for the setup of an US LLC for trading purposes?
Delaware for sure much more common and brokers/bank may ask less questions than with an Wyoming LLC?
Delaware for sure much more common and brokers/bank may ask less questions than with an Wyoming LLC?
Hi,
Just wondering if you have compared BVI with other “cheaper” jurisdictions like︈ Seychelles or Belize. Any reason why you prefer BVI over the other two?
Just wondering if you have compared BVI with other “cheaper” jurisdictions like︈ Seychelles or Belize. Any reason why you prefer BVI over the other two?
In my opinion Seychelles/Belize will nearly be impossible to open bank accounts (specially if Crypto is involved)
Cayman/BVI pretty easy to open corporate Crypto Bank accounts with the usual suspect crypto banks
Cayman/BVI pretty easy to open corporate Crypto Bank accounts with the usual suspect crypto banks
Hey Phantom. I am sorry for this late reply. Unfortunately Brazil is undergoing a tax reform and there are many things that we don't know yet, but it seems that in the current proposal citizens will be required to pay taxes of the annual profits of companies located in countries considered "tax havens". Currently I would only pay taxes on the dividends received by this company. I︀ am not sure or not if a Delaware LLC could be considered a tax haven︁ or not.
As for the best US state to open an LLC, it seems that︂ Delaware and Wyoming offers the most liability protection for the owner. Delaware is the one︃ with most available services (lots of registered agents, proof of address schemes, virtual offices, etc..)︄ but Wyoming is cheaper and can be anonymous if you want. If I go the︅ wyoming route I would prefer to not be anonymous as it is harder to open︆ a bank account this way.
As for the best US state to open an LLC, it seems that︂ Delaware and Wyoming offers the most liability protection for the owner. Delaware is the one︃ with most available services (lots of registered agents, proof of address schemes, virtual offices, etc..)︄ but Wyoming is cheaper and can be anonymous if you want. If I go the︅ wyoming route I would prefer to not be anonymous as it is harder to open︆ a bank account this way.
Thank you for the incfile. What would be the advantage to go with agents like legalzoom and such?
Regarding the banks, yes Silvergate/Signature are great as they have insta settlement of the cash leg if you do arb.
However, other banks for BVI Cos are for example Swiss Crypto Focused Banks like SEBA or Sygnum.
Alternatively if︀ you just need random on/off fiat ramps, you could onboard your BVI Co with an︁ OTC broker and then its very easy to get money in/out and fees most likely︂ cheaper than most exchanges depending on size etc..
Bank Frick or these types will charge︃ you completely loco fees and imho not worth it as long as you got other︄ alternatives
Regarding the banks, yes Silvergate/Signature are great as they have insta settlement of the cash leg if you do arb.
However, other banks for BVI Cos are for example Swiss Crypto Focused Banks like SEBA or Sygnum.
Alternatively if︀ you just need random on/off fiat ramps, you could onboard your BVI Co with an︁ OTC broker and then its very easy to get money in/out and fees most likely︂ cheaper than most exchanges depending on size etc..
Bank Frick or these types will charge︃ you completely loco fees and imho not worth it as long as you got other︄ alternatives
In terms of opening a bank account, would it be better to incorporate︈ in Deleware or BVI? You didn't mention anything about opening a bank in the pros/cons︉ of a US LLC.
What about crypto companies? No bank in the US allows bank account opening for crypto companies no matter what location they are incorporated. What would your advice be for a crypto company incorporated in the US that wants to open a bank account.
me personally I wouldnt open a Crypto related trading company in the US as you wont get access to full Binance or FTX etc.
My setup is BVI for Crypto and US LLC for 'normal markets' trading
Banking with BVI Crypto Co with US based Silvergate/Signature Bank no problem
US Delaware LLC for 'normal trading'
Delaware US︀ LLC because lots of financial companies best to setup LLC vs Wyoming or so as︁ you'd need to declare UBO anyways)
If you have a US Crypto Company, speak with︂ Silvergate/Signature -- however, to my best knowledge with US crypto Company can only use Binance︃ US or FTX US which have very limited options --- plus, eventually you may run︄ into regulation issues going forward
My setup is BVI for Crypto and US LLC for 'normal markets' trading
Banking with BVI Crypto Co with US based Silvergate/Signature Bank no problem
US Delaware LLC for 'normal trading'
Delaware US︀ LLC because lots of financial companies best to setup LLC vs Wyoming or so as︁ you'd need to declare UBO anyways)
If you have a US Crypto Company, speak with︂ Silvergate/Signature -- however, to my best knowledge with US crypto Company can only use Binance︃ US or FTX US which have very limited options --- plus, eventually you may run︄ into regulation issues going forward
yes, just much more limited amount of underlyings, products and leverage and such
if you just want to trade majors then you could go with them but fees are higher for active trading vs FTX or Binance
if you just want to trade majors then you could go with them but fees are higher for active trading vs FTX or Binance
It won't be for crypto trading. The︂ company itself will be an actual crypto exchange (similar to Binance and FTX) with advanced︃ trading platforms. We have a team currently building it and it's due to launch soon.︄ Would the BVI co with US-based silvergate/signature method work in this case?
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