San Marino

[JustAnotherNomad]

I have been surprised to see there is very little info in the forum about San Marino. Why?

Seems like a very interesting option? You even have tax incentives for high-tech companies:

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Thread 'Need help with taxes in San-Marino for High Tech companies and Individuals.'​

Mar 16, 2021
As for I know, in San-Marino it is 0%, 4%, and 8% corporate taxes for HT startups (for the first 3, 4, 5 years, 12 years total) and 5% dividends tax for residents. Should residents pay additional social and individual taxes for these dividends?

Also, foreign income is not taxed in San-Marino. If I have offshore (BVI, Caymans, or UAE), hodling some crypto, is it taxed in San-Marino, when the cost of the crypto growth?

• cryptocreat0r
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Tax, Accounting, Licensing & Legal

Seems like there are different pathways to residency, worst case you'd have to buy a property for 500k.
3% tax on foreign dividends, or a bit more if it's a local company.

Really doesn't look so bad? Real estate also seems relatively affordable.

Seems like there aren't even any border checks? So you could probably even spend a lot of time elsewhere in the Schengen area and it would be difficult to prove.

What's the catch?

 

[SCHLOSSFINANZ]

without local connections almost impossible.

 

[Konstanz]

San Marino has taxes. It's in a "strange" location

 

[Sols]

I feel like every couple of years, there's a brief burst of attention for San‌ Marino after someone goes there, makes some deals, and then tries to sell them as‍ a packaged solution. Then they get almost zero traction because in the end, San Marino⁠ doesn't have any advantages to most people in most situations. So it fades back into⁤ obscurity until the cycle repeats.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

SM used to be sexy, when the riviera was sexy. Today it seems pretty useless tbh, no decent real estate and no significant tax advantages, with a lot of headaches if you are Italian.
If you are not Italian speaking you're going to have a hard time being understood there.
There can be some perks if you have an import business or carry some specific professional activity, as long as your clients take the trouble to reach that remote place.
They have a decent aircraft registry, but I don't know why one should choose it over, say, Malta or the IOM.
Amazon delivers in SM.
No Glovo and similar.

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[daniels27]

There are also some people from Ticino 😉

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

Why not? 5-15%‍ tax, in Schengen (basically in Italy), honestly seems more interesting than Malta/Cyprus (islands)?
I feel⁠ a fair comparison would be Andorra - but Andorra is very poorly connected. Maybe Monaco⁤ - granted, no tax, but Monaco is much, much more expensive, and pretty ugly.
And Italian isn't difficult to learn.
What am I missing?

 

[daniels27]

I think it is just very remote and from my understanding locals are more locals,‌ rather than expats like in Andorra, Monaco, etc. There is a reason why they signed‍ (as first country) a visa waiver agreement with China in 1985: you simply cannot get⁠ there qiuckly.

But I think it you like it remote, it would be a good⁤ place to live. Maybe a bit hot in summer?

 

[Sols]

Malta and Cyprus: EU members, English speaking, well understood tax systems, business friendly,⁤ lots of businesses there, legal system based on UK law. Popularity begets popularity.

Monaco: a⁣ playground for the wealthy. If Monaco is expensive, it's not for you.

Those are the⁢ things that matter to most people in most situations.

Andorra: unlike San Marino, Andorra has︀ actually had some success that seems to be sustaining. It's still far behind Cyprus, Malta,︁ and Monaco by most measures.

Ultimately, it's a subjective choice. But San Marino isn't overlooked︂ or forgotten. It's been analyzed and rejected by almost everyone who has taken the time︃ to consider it.

 

[zaybxc]

San Marino is a good place for crypto investors: crypto-to-crypto swaps are tax-free and crypto-to-fiat‌ is 8% tax.

 

[Konstanz]

Any people here who lived or live in San Marino could share their experiences?

 

[Despina]

Same is for Italy

In Switzerland crypto to fiat is tax free‍ if you are a private investor so there is nothing to be excited about in⁠ San Marino.

The only deal in San Marino is getting the atypical residence subject to⁤ a 7% tax on foreign sourced income.

And foreign sourced income is any income that⁣ comes from outside San Marino.

The only problem is that they give away only a⁢ handful of those residencies every year and it lasts only 15 years but other than︀ that no 500k investment in real estate or forming a damn company with endless bureaucracy︁ is required.

 

[Konstanz]

I have googled it says for atypical minimum investment is 500k,︁ also minimum annual tax is 10k eur.
I wonder how many people would choose that.︂ I don't really see how it's cheaper than Andorra or Monaco.
At the end you︃ will invest a lot of money, time and have some residence with tax

Maybe it's︄ attractive mainly to Italians or Italian speakers

 

[Despina]

The 500k investment is new to me but I understand‍ why they are doing it.

 

[zaybxc]

And Cyprus, Austria and Hungary.
Tax on crypto to fiat is:

• In Italy 33%
  
• In Cyprus you pay income tax or‌ you can trade through a company, but in the end you'll pay more than 15%.‍
  
• Austria 27.5%
  
• Hungary 15%
  

From Koinly https://koinly.io/guides/switzerland-crypto-tax-guide/

no Capital Gains Tax⁤ on your profits from selling or trading crypto IF:

• You've held your crypto asset for⁣ at least six months
  
• You have a trading turnover smaller than 5x your holding at⁢ the beginning of the financial year
  
• Your net capital gain is smaller than 50% of︀ your total income throughout the financial year
  
• You have no debt financing
  
• You use derivatives︁ solely for hedging
  

As you see only in particular cases crypto to fiat is tax︂ free in Switzerland; and you have to pay wealth tax on your crypto anyway.

Considering the above I disagree: crypto-to-crypto swaps tax-free and crypto-to-fiat 8% tax is probably the︄ best option in Europe for a crypto investor.

 

[daniels27]

The Swiss case has been discussed many times. In the end, it is a matter‌ whether you do this professionally or just for fun. There is no clear rule, it‍ depends on the circumstances and most people know very well under which category they fall.⁠

Nevertheless, I am wondering about San Marino. Anybody knows somebody who knows a San Marino⁤ immigrant?

 

[brianK]

This is quite interesting, as there are climate and other factors to consider. It would‌ be interesting to hear if anyone actually lives in San Marino?

 

[Protect Your Wealth]

I evaluated to move to San Marino, but wasn't really that attractive when I investigated‌ the whole picture.

What you are not considering is the fact that Italy will consider‍ any cross-border visit as a day passed in Italy and you need to leave San⁠ Marino for A LOT of reasons (the nearest airport is in Rimini, for example) as⁤ many essential services are outside of San Marino.

If you happen to do this enough⁣ times in a year, Italy will try to tax you on your global income (and⁢ you don't want to deal with Italian Tax Authorities).

Also it is quite difficult to︀ find an accomodation, and you need to rent a property for the residency permit: this︁ means the cost of living skyrockets.

There is also the fact that it's a small︂ town. If you are not really that much into a "retirement" mindset, San Marino is︃ not for you as it implies social isolation. If you don't speak Italian, that would︄ be a serious problem.

The climate is good for 8-9 months per year, in winter︅ is quite humid.

 

[daniels27]

Also, don't forget that any Chinese can enter the country visa-free at any time.

 

[Marzio]

How is‍ this possible if there are no border controls when traveling between Italy and San Marino?⁠