Finance and economics mentoring
New Horizons Paraguay
Ticker tape by TradingView

Running a crypto-only business

Status
Not open for further replies.
Burak

Burak

New Member
May 4, 2021
74
0
161
- B2C Digital products, paying suppliers* in crypto
- Getting paid directly to private wallets
- Holding crypto and cashing out with P2P (cash and metals)
- Not dealing with any banking / payment processor at all

* Using a dormant (not sure if this is correct word, but it doesn't have any accounted activity) company to deal with suppliers (KYC / KYB). I don't think they report as they are taking crypto payments privately.

I'm aware this is what most people / my competitors do, but is there any possibility you get in trouble? Especially at big scale, when you send 7 digits to supplier per month.

Last edited: Sep 24, 2024
 
Can you elaborate what you mean by proper accounting, I‍ thought company doesn't have any official activity as it doesn't receive payment from any payment⁠ processor.
 
Yes, but in my case I‍ don't collect payments as company. Only place I use company's name is KYB docs, in⁠ the theory I send funds on behalf of company but suppliers are also from other⁤ countries and I highly doubt they report somewhere.
 
This is naive and short-sighted. What do you do if your⁤ business becomes successful and a bank, a payment processor, the police, or the tax man⁣ for some reason wants to see how you earned your money and paid all taxes⁢ due?

Straight up poetry here.
 
Which docs are we talking about? I never met any supplier⁤ asking for company docs. Why would a guy taking crypto do this? If you local⁣ hooker also asking your date of birth while all supermarket guys aren't?

If you︀ are 100% illegal, what do you need a company for? Buy a gold membership it︁ read the other open forums for solutions. There is a good thread about Georgia from︂ yesterday.

I doubt this will happen.
 
I was looking at this, i came︁ to the conclusion the following -> Panama with a services contract with another entity *HK*︂

I.e Panama for the company, and HK for your income (via contract) -> cash out︃ via HK is easy enough to do, and the Panama company is ideal for a︄ number of reasons, not least because it's impossible to bank, but also the accounting side︅ of things.

Then lastly -> where you are based will factor into that working, if︆ in HK there's tax, if say living in XYZ then it's tax free in HK︇ but might have tax where you are based.

One thing︉ keeping accounting (normal)
Another one "Submitting Accounting".
 
The problem is that most likely they won't accept the︁ offshore claim as he has not paying taxes where the company is managed from. And︂ then it is still illegal but with a 8000 USD overhead.
 
I actually built⁠ a system like this previously (so it can be done) the entire front-end, back-end operates⁤ on rails the MAS system operates like a entity / human / corporation -> if⁣ your business is completely or nearly completely automated and not functioning in centralised applications (say⁢ Amazon) i.e front end user interactions isn't operating on a store front etc on a︀ 3rd party centralised service, and your product/service is digital.

You can essentially create a AI︁ system that packages the entire product/service within (and hook into 3rd party solutions operating on-chain)︂ and then have the corporate side work from within the MAS basically taking all HUMAN︃ and ALL CORPORATE elements PLUS ALL DIGITAL SERVICING into a AI multi-agent system -> from︄ there it's basically everywhere but nowhere, its operations occur on-chain and are enacted by a︅ node the other-side of the world, millions of nodes across the globe.

Its able to︆ pay, collect, invoice etc and manage its reserves as they build up.

Basically the AI︇ becomes a corporation, you on the other hand just bill the 'corporation' for contract work,︈ either directly or indirectly via a corporation (say HK).

The Gov can only hold you︉ accountable for 'tax evasion' if you operate the MAS (have control over it) they can't︊ if its legitimately decentralised and operationally self sufficient.

You are therefore a employee/contractor that negotiates/bills︋ the AI

the end clients deal with the AI much like people deal with Digital︌ companies today.

Likewise you can withdraw (rug your ai) when you are sufficiently non-taxed exposed︍ (jurisdiction) by 'negotiating' its retirement.

Not sure‌ i follow

He's using a dormant company for

- KYC/KYB
- Payments (crypto) paid on behalf⁠ of?
- Not doing Accounting?
- Telling the Gov its dormant?

He's fucked.

I've since built a⁣ much larger system that operates as a MAS but has a team operating it (as⁢ i had a heart attack and opted to step away).

Basically almost any digital company︀ can be moved into a MAS based system (means letting go of the company/tech) but︁ it makes it tax exempt - in theory (as operations) as its not operational anywhere︂ and operates within the lines via world wide nodes.
 
But if they can show that you created the MAS won't they just look at‌ it as business automation? Especially if you're the only one using it (closed source), could‍ be different if it is a DAO or something of the sorts without a central⁠ point of control (the creator, i.e. you who is able to adjust the code), or⁤ am I missing something?
 
I don't use banking at all, only face-to-face P2P to cash or gold. I‍ understand this results in non-SoF funds, but I'm okay with that.

Personal KYC and incorporation documents for⁢ KYB. They take bank payments normally, crypto privately.

I might be fucked for︁ real. Regarding to solution you mentioned, if I don't need cashout/banking at all, should any︂ offshore justriction (with minimal accounting requirements) work? I was looking at Marshall Islands (no accounting)︃ and Seychelles (easier to form).

I don't have problems with keeping accounting, but receiving thousands︄ of payments from random crypto wallets, what people care is privacy in this industry and︅ not sure how to do "proper accounting" with maintaining privacy of clients
 
No, laws don’t work that way⁣

Once it’s in the wild it’s in the wild - sure there’s gonna be court⁢ cases over this in the future but it’s basically arguing for sentient enslavement - ergo︀ you are required to pay the taxes of your creation (child)

Do not do Seychelles︁ if involved in crypto
 
As it is not a DAO⁣ and after the talks with the local tax guys, my best guess is that they⁢ will argue that as you are the only person who has access to the bank︀ account / private keys to the cryptos, you are the ultimate manager as you control︁ it. If you claim you do not control it, it is called money laundering: lending︂ access to bank accounts is a crime by itself or by virtue of money laundering.︃

I really like the creativity here in the forum. But︇ I personally believe that the proposed structure is quite expensive and ultimately does not solve︈ the main problem of tax evasion. It would be better to look into relocating first︉ to solve the problem at their root, rather than experimenting with expensive structures that are︊ far from guaranteed to work as you state yourself:
It sounds more like a︎ lottery, to be honest.

US LLC + some⁣ personal tax residency for the sake of having it (Thailand) and then just travel like⁢ a nomad.

I personally wonder who in such a place would︁ do KYC/KYB. I would recommend checking on that first and they see if there not︂ cheaper versions to bypas it.
 
Hence you do‍ not retain access to them, the AI generates its own.

Yet becoming reality.

A lot of us have been experimenting with⁤ it for years and you will see a few come online in due course.
 
But how you get the money out then?

I would expect laws⁤ in regards to accountability on AI quite soon. Once, the creator takes full accountability of⁣ its AI actions, you will also be certain to be the ultimate manager.
 
As a‌ contractor you'd have work with the 'AI' and be paid in lieu of such.

If you mean 'all at once' then no, this only works for operations on-going as detailed‍ above.

Think of the AI as a all encompassing company, released into the wild, its⁠ not regulated nor is it in any one jurisdiction both operationally or fiscally, it doesn't⁤ touch the traditional world, just services requests from end users via its inbuilt application.

Or think of the AI as a child that you've reared and released into the Wild,⁣ but the Child runs a entire corporation, and spends less than 30 seconds in each⁢ nation before 'porting' to the next, never being in one nation for the time required︀ to be considered a entity operating within the nation.

Or think one step further, all︁ of that pushed into a satellite and sent to space costing 160,000$ being outside of︂ planetary jurisdiction.

That is the future with MAS (Multi-Agent System AI) and Blockchain

It already︃ exists in part, for example 1Inch operates on IPFS but people (humans) use its Web2︄ front end instead (predominantly).

As someone who has been in the field since︆ 2001 -> Good luck with it. Its unenforceable.
 
Yes, and you are the only one entitled to‍ such "contracts" -> you manage it in its own sence.

Many things are unenforcable, but the government finds alternatives to make your life⁤ so hard, that you don't even go there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

JohnnyDoe.is is an uncensored discussion forum
focused on free speech,
independent thinking, and controversial ideas.
Everyone is responsible for their own words.

Quick Navigation

Forums

User Menu

Login
Community platform by JohnnyDoe © 2025 JohnnyDoe
Top Bottom