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‘Petrified’ non-doms poised to flee UK over Labour’s tax plans

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Wait till they increase the capital gains tax rate from 20-28% to same level as‌ income tax rate . I wonder how happy wealthy people would be paying 45% capital‍ gains tax rate on their investments as opposed to 28%.....lol.

Capital gains tax has been⁠ tinkered with for 60 years – please Labour, leave it alone​


https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...ears-please-labour-leave-it-alone/ar-BB1prOdK

UK's Labour considers⁤ upping capital gains and inheritance taxes, Guardian reports​


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...nheritance-taxes-guardian-reports/ar-BB1oEMCX

Btw It is reported that the⁣ Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) expects 20% of UK non-doms to leave because of the⁢ tax raid. That's 13,760 of the 68,800 non-doms. Sounds very conservative (no pun intended) so︀ lets see how numbers look after April 2025 😛.
 
The FPTP voting system is aggressively disproportionate.

Labour got 33.8% of the vote (9.7m) while Tories‌ got 23.7% (6.8m) but yet has less than 1/3 of Labour seats.

Then you have‍ Reform with 4 MILLION votes but gained only 4 seats...
 
We are long past governments needing to justify their tax hikes in a world were‌ the top 10% tax payers are already providing 90% of the tax income. Nowadays the‍ new taxes are called solidarity payments etc etc .... and nobody bats an eye .⁠ It's easy to think the rich should pay more. Too bad when all business is⁤ indirectly owned by the govm't due to the tax burdens...with bureaucrats calling the shots and⁣ everyone says EU is heading down the slippery slope. the answer is clear to the⁢ bureacrats - we have no idea how to boost gov income or the economy through︀ expanding business incomes, so we simply take whatever is around now and leave it for︁ the next gov to worry about the downstream effects on business. Look at France Italy︂ Spain and the UK already to see where this route goes.
 
It is indeed. And it's been abused by all parties a long⁠ time.
I assume Tories decided to loose the election to save the party from being⁤ overthrown by Reform. But, yes, it's mind blowing that a minority of leftist get into⁣ major power thanks to FPTP system.
 
FPTP? No way. It's the perfect system for gerrymandering and with Labour lowering‌ down the voting requirements (like age, necessity for ID etc) and possibly importing more migrants‍ they might stay in power forever.
"Land doesn't vote".
 
For average folks life should be better under Labour, but if you are‌ a multimillionaire my guess they will try to "milk" you more in taxes. Money doesn't‍ grow on trees so someone has to pay up.
 
-3200 net loss in 2023
-9500 in 2024
I assume the same amount will leave‌ in 2025, so roughly a loss of 20-25 thousands of well-off families in 3 years‍ or around 35k in last 7 years (since Brexit). Statistics if wonky, but several sources⁠ give more or less the same estimate. Brexit stated the trend, Ukrainian war scared away⁤ Russian money, Non-dom played a big part, Tory meltdown finished the job.

35k is not⁣ that much actually, considering that most of those lived in London and South East, some⁢ will keep the properties, some will still send their kids to British boarding schools, so︀ it's not all doom and gloom.
 
I mean the⁠ tories pretty much did labour policies: increased the size of government, maintained high taxes, increased⁤ crazy regulations and kept local politician power to make life difficult for local entrepreneurs (there⁣ are tens of thousands unknown entrepreneurs facing the same problems as Jeremy Clarksons farm, and⁢ Peter McCormacks football club).

It will just be more of the same now, would expect︀ life of average folks to keep on in the same stagnant gradual loss of purchasing︁ power trajectory. And in the next elections voters will be disillusioned with Labour.
 
Nope. Labour will get at least 3-4 years credit of public trust because every‍ single problem will be explained "It's Tory fault, they f-d up the country in the⁠ last 14 years".
So they will easily win the next election, maybe without a super-majority,⁤ but very comfortably. Combine that with mass migration (ie uneducated poor Labour voters) and you⁣ can imagine 20+ years of uninterrupted rule by socialists.
 

Labour is coming for your wealth – here’s where to escape their taxes​


https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/per...ere-s-where-to-escape-their-taxes/ar-BB1pvvIN

What you said is⁠ what the public hopes for......

.....but this is likely the reality under Labour 😕

If a switch is made︄ to proportional representation who knows what the landscape could look like.

Poll: Labour voters back︅ proportional representation over first past post​

https://labourlist.org/2024/06/first-past-the-post-labour-proportional-representation/
 
Ok, let's imagine that. So Labour will not‍ win with a super-majority, but rather have to form alliances with LibDem or Greens or⁠ new British Muslim party (mark my words, will be a thing in the UK), so⁤ anyways they will be in power. The only way they can lose if something majorly⁣ bad happens (war, natural disaster) and they fail in handling the situation (like most of⁢ the politicians do), so people will elect someone else to "fix the UK".
UK is︀ not a poor country, there is a significant portion of well-off people and middle-class folks︁ who tend to vote Conservative or someone similar. But it's much less than 40%, the︂ rest are youth (Labour/Green), "assimilated" migrants (will vote for whoever supports Palestine more), local rednecks︃ (Labour) and white unhappy women (LibDem/Labour/whoever supports Palestine more). So the only way Tory can︄ get into power again is to surgically fight for every constituency and invest heavily in︅ propaganda to incite the fight between Labour supporters (Palestine, LGBTQ and women rights are the︆ current go-for, there surely will be something).
 
The tories do not stand for what they used to stand for which was low⁠ tax and business friendly etc. Under tory government UK has witnessed some of the biggest⁤ tax rises such as a 32% increase in corporate tax from 19% to 25% and⁣ VAT from 17.5% to 20%. They are also forced by the far right elements of⁢ the party i.e Braverman etc to push a daft anti immigration stop the boats agenda.︀ Polls have shown immigration is not even in the top 3 concerns of British voters︁ anyway. They failed to understand this and got served their papers to leave office by︂ the public when they kept harping on about the daft Rwanda plan and not on︃ more important issues.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/artic...what-are-the-most-important-issues-for-voters
We can also see how Reform UK split the conservative vote︄ as Labours share of the vote was not exactly impressive. I don't think people believe︅ in the conservative party any more and those that cannot stand Labour voted other parties︆ such as Reform UK. Basically an anything but conservative vote took place. If tories come︇ back to power it wont be any time soon under any system until the memory︈ of their 14 years of complete failure in office is erased from peoples minds. A︉ 250+ seat loss is nothing short of a collapse and they need to analyse carefully︊ what went wrong.

Also UK is a poor country with some very rich people...lol. Poor︋ productivity and growth in absolute poverty and people are becoming worse off every day is︌ a problem. There is a lack of investment in the right things such as improving︍ productivity. The UK is also seeing the biggest rise in absolute poverty which is not︎ good.

So I‍ think UK have made a major mistake by cancelling non-dom scheme. They will not raise⁠ much money from the change. It would have been smarter to even bring in a⁤ super high non-dom fee like £200k a year non-dom fee. There would be many who⁣ would have stayed and paid.

P.S Good discussion and feel free to reply but also⁢ lets stick to the topic which is non-doms fleeing 😛
 
I think malta sees an opportunity to win some of those flee'ing non-doms via its‌ Nomad program, which they raised from 32k to 42k minimum income but extended the number‍ of years total allowable stay from 3 to 4 years. Easy solution for the wealthy⁠ and giving them up to 4 years - plenty of time for people to get⁤ used to malta and maybe decide to swap to some other program and stay. As⁣ for Labour changing anything - I think Truss has trying for the only viable way⁢ forward - but by then it was probably far too late to lower taxes, cut︀ gown't expenditure and rely on British entrepreneurial spirit to increase the size of the taxation︁ pot over time (to offset shorter term increased borrowing). I think it was the only︂ option to potentially make the UK attractive again to entrepreneurs, and especially for local entrepreneurs︃ to get them to stay rather than bolt out of the UK as soon as︄ their income is high enough or their invention advanced enough. Compare that to the good︅ old days when England and Scotland were world powerhouses for invention and industry, prior to︆ all the money moving away. There are no great UK IT companies left in the︇ UK since ARM sold to the Asians. But international banking perhaps wants every country in︈ the same model - high taxes to pay high gown't borrowing debt. Keeping the wealthy︉ non-doms is no answer to the chronic troubles in the UK.. Same as the EU..︊ lack of competitiveness, too much government over spending more than it raises leading to constant︋ tax increases, all discentivising local business and increasing small business burdens and so stifling opportunities︌ to grow. Flee'ing non-doms will accelerate the continued spiral downwards of the UK / EU︍ approach to ruling. I imagine the Labour Party will not have any answers and within︎ a couple of years will need a big distraction campaign.. something like "lets go back️ into the EU again". to keep all the voters distracted from the chronic problems. A‌ war will achieve similar distractive results. War isn't the popular option that it was in‍ times past, only anachronisms like Putin still think it's the way forward. Of course as⁠ long as comrades like the French government remain big investors in armaments companies there is⁤ always a chance wars might still find a way to happen or risk loosing the⁣ dividends from those investments. It's a complex world, and I think flee'ing non-dogs feel the⁢ chill of changing times where governments can now apply any new taxes they like as︀ long as they are targeted to the so called "rich".who already one way or another︁ pay the majority of taxes not to mention flow down benefits Overspending governments everywhere are︂ uniting to narrow the options. The majority of voters will never object to higher taxes︃ on the wealthy. How long malta and Cyprus etc will be able to keep their︄ special tax regimes is yet to be seen. Some current programs have end dates in︅ 2030. It seems various EU tax reduction programs have such end dates. So Malta and︆ Cyprus might be interim locations at best pending the EU shutting the door on them...︇ but for now what other options exist if you want English speaking and near to︈ Western Europe and a robust local economy? I wonder whose stats we will be able︉ to trust about the real number of flee'ing non-doms? Will anyone publish stats on where︊ such flee'ing people decide to relocate to? Those would be interesting stats for those who︋ follow the money 🙂.
 
Well the Visual Capitalist graphic shown is for 2022, and Henley is projected for 2024.‌ But they paint the same picture, millionaires leave the BRICS countries plus the UK, and‍ move to the UAE, Singapore and the West (US, Australia, Switzerland, Mediterranean countries).

Makes sense,⁠ if I was a millionaire in China Id leave too, the risk of the chinese⁤ government making you disappear would not be worth taking. Why the chinese go to high⁣ tax Australia isnt totally obvious though, but proximity is a factor I guess, and also⁢ that it's easy to invest/launder money in Australian property, and that there is a sizeable︀ chinese community there.
 

Treasury raked in £9bn from non-doms last year​

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/per...ed-in-9bn-from-non-doms-last-year/ar-BB1pGEdu
--- quote start

The Treasury raked‌ in almost £9bn in taxes from non-doms last year, official data has shown, as Labour prepares a crackdown that threatens an exodus of the super-wealthy.

Revenue from non-domiciled taxpayers jumped‍ by £474m to £8.9bn in the tax year ending in 2023, according to data published⁠ by HM Revenue & Customs.

This was up 6pc year-on-year and the highest total since⁤ the tax year ending in 2017, when the Government tightened the rules on who was⁣ eligible to qualify for the tax status.

Experts warned that Labour’s plans to abolish the⁢ non-domiciled tax system risks drying up a crucial revenue stream for the Treasury.
So-called non-doms are people who live in the UK but who have registered a permanent address overseas.︀ They have to pay British tax rates on the money that they earn within the︁ UK, but not on earnings made internationally.

The number of non-dom taxpayers in the UK︂ grew by 7pc year-on-year to 74,000, the latest figures showed. This was driven by an︃ 18pc surge in new arrivals, with 12,900 non-dom taxpayers moving to the UK in the︄ tax year ending April 2023.

But wealth managers have warned this inward flow could soon︅ go into reverse, as Labour’s planned overhaul risks pushing some of the highest earners to︆ lower tax jurisdictions such as Italy, which has a flat annual charge of €100,000 (£85,000)︇ on income earned abroad.
Nicholas Hyett, investment manager at Wealth Club, said: “Non-doms will soon︈ be extinct in the UK … these numbers are therefore a glimpse into the past,︉ soon to be part of the fossil record.”

Mr Hyett urged Rachel Reeves to make︊ sure not to alienate wealthy individuals with the new tax system.

He said: “While taxing︋ the rich might raise more revenue, it also runs the risk that the global elite︌ decide to move their taxable wealth somewhere with a lighter touch tax regime.”

More than︍ two thirds of the £8.9bn paid by non-doms came from income tax, while £2.3bn came︎ via National Insurance contributions. A further £384m came from capital gains tax.

--- quote end️

Just goes to show how important non-doms are to UK with average non-dom contributing £120k‌ in taxes.

Tax from UK’s 74,000 non-doms paid for 18 days of NHS spending in‍ 2022​

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/per...r-18-days-of-nhs-spending-in-2022/ar-BB1pGb4U
 
DIRECT taxes, if I may.
Add to‍ this stamp duties on multiple properties, VAT on spends etc etc. And most of it⁠ without putting any strain on public resources, ie going to private hospitals, sending kids to⁤ private schools, not claiming any benefits etc. And that is not counting the corporate taxes⁣ that are generated by those who moved in the UK, various venture investments and so⁢ on.
It's a stupid populist move that has nothing to do with economics, however that︀ what voters are happy to swallow and politicians gladly offer.
 
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