Obtaining tax residency in Monaco
- Thread starter Gediminas
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Been there for a while last months. I was very interested. It kinda broke my "dreams", cameras aren't the problem 😕
btw cameras read and store plates at the border, this is 100% verified. Also there's a little AI going on the system, but for other safety reasons not face rec or ID.
btw cameras read and store plates at the border, this is 100% verified. Also there's a little AI going on the system, but for other safety reasons not face rec or ID.
Yes, you just have to compare with other cities. London has CCTV everywhere, it's much worse than MC. Also, you can go to jail because of one offensive tweet, things are way better in MC, but the main reason I like it is that there are great people in MC. Each time I've been out there, I ma de new friends.
Bump for more insight. I have been to Monaco, and have many friends who relocated there, both with legit and not-so-legit backgrounds.
Regarding OPs comments that banks there don' have risk appetite at all it depends on many things:
1) The richer you are, the less conservative they get. (How many wanted criminals, dictators, tax evaders etc, got assets in Monaco ? Trust me i've seen many.).
2) The source of funds you provide needs to be straightforward and easy to understand. The more complex it is the more red flags you'll strike as they think you're just bullshitting them and did something really bad︀ to get that money in the first place (Trafficking, organized crime money are their main︁ fears, the rest they really don't care as long as it's not obvious and backed︂ by documentation). Unless we're talking 10m +, keep your source of funds simplistic and your︃ story easy to understand, if you're trying to open an account with 500k-2m euros, don't︄ give them reasons to tell you to f**k off.
Make sure the funds come from︅ reputable banks in reputable countries, someone with accounts in the UK is far more credible︆ to a Monaco bank than some bozo showing up with millions in questionable money from︇ a bank in Georgia. The more you mix up tax havens/Non-CRS countries in your story,︈ the less likely they will take you seriously, unless you're a whale that did everything︉ by the book for tax optimization purposes and you can prove those taxes you owed︊ have been paid in full.
Personally, i wouldn't consider moving there unless i got at︋ least 10m in assets to retire on. It's an expensive place, reserved for a specific︌ elite. It's also very small, you'll encounter very different personalities than the ones you usually︍ meet else where. There's a lot of snobs, shark mentalities and being superficial is a︎ common trait for those who live there. I've seen people with millions burn through their️ money in that place because everything is over priced, and i mean everything. You cannot live normally unless you're spending like a maniac there, that's why only the ultra rich live there, because they can afford to not care about their finances.
If you are trying to:
1) Have proximity to wealthy people, build networks, meet people to expand business opportunities
2) Enjoy proximity to major european centers while enjoying tax benefits
3) Invest in real estate
4) Build a luxury brand
Then Monaco is a good place to live in because you'll open yourself to a lot of possibilities to make a lot of︀ money.
If you are trying to:
1) Live a family life
2) Retire and enjoy︁ life
3) Be relaxed and not be bothered by pettiness and bulls**t
4) Not be︂ miserable
Then don't move to Monaco.
You could move to southern spain, Italy, even Malta︃ if you wanted the sun, beaches and proximity to european centers. And that will only︄ cost you a fraction of what you would spend in Monaco to retire and live︅ freely. Real estate is cheaper, rent is cheaper, you can afford to experiment and enjoy︆ broader cultures than just expensive bling. You will have enough space to have a family︇ and your kids will have a better environment to grow up in. (Yes, spain has︈ insane taxes but i'm talking about retiring, not doing business). Monaco gets old very quickly︉ once you get over the parties, bling lifestyle, nice cars and overpriced food. I know︊ guys who moved there and after 1-2 weeks they literally got depressed because of how︋ small the place is, they ended up going to France and Italy constantly to feel︌ "normal".
PS: If you're looking for a bank to deal with there that fits what︍ i said above, try Compagnie Monégasque de Banque. They don't like small fish, but if︎ you got money they'll open a lot of doors for you.
Regarding OPs comments that banks there don' have risk appetite at all it depends on many things:
1) The richer you are, the less conservative they get. (How many wanted criminals, dictators, tax evaders etc, got assets in Monaco ? Trust me i've seen many.).
2) The source of funds you provide needs to be straightforward and easy to understand. The more complex it is the more red flags you'll strike as they think you're just bullshitting them and did something really bad︀ to get that money in the first place (Trafficking, organized crime money are their main︁ fears, the rest they really don't care as long as it's not obvious and backed︂ by documentation). Unless we're talking 10m +, keep your source of funds simplistic and your︃ story easy to understand, if you're trying to open an account with 500k-2m euros, don't︄ give them reasons to tell you to f**k off.
Make sure the funds come from︅ reputable banks in reputable countries, someone with accounts in the UK is far more credible︆ to a Monaco bank than some bozo showing up with millions in questionable money from︇ a bank in Georgia. The more you mix up tax havens/Non-CRS countries in your story,︈ the less likely they will take you seriously, unless you're a whale that did everything︉ by the book for tax optimization purposes and you can prove those taxes you owed︊ have been paid in full.
Personally, i wouldn't consider moving there unless i got at︋ least 10m in assets to retire on. It's an expensive place, reserved for a specific︌ elite. It's also very small, you'll encounter very different personalities than the ones you usually︍ meet else where. There's a lot of snobs, shark mentalities and being superficial is a︎ common trait for those who live there. I've seen people with millions burn through their️ money in that place because everything is over priced, and i mean everything. You cannot live normally unless you're spending like a maniac there, that's why only the ultra rich live there, because they can afford to not care about their finances.
If you are trying to:
1) Have proximity to wealthy people, build networks, meet people to expand business opportunities
2) Enjoy proximity to major european centers while enjoying tax benefits
3) Invest in real estate
4) Build a luxury brand
Then Monaco is a good place to live in because you'll open yourself to a lot of possibilities to make a lot of︀ money.
If you are trying to:
1) Live a family life
2) Retire and enjoy︁ life
3) Be relaxed and not be bothered by pettiness and bulls**t
4) Not be︂ miserable
Then don't move to Monaco.
You could move to southern spain, Italy, even Malta︃ if you wanted the sun, beaches and proximity to european centers. And that will only︄ cost you a fraction of what you would spend in Monaco to retire and live︅ freely. Real estate is cheaper, rent is cheaper, you can afford to experiment and enjoy︆ broader cultures than just expensive bling. You will have enough space to have a family︇ and your kids will have a better environment to grow up in. (Yes, spain has︈ insane taxes but i'm talking about retiring, not doing business). Monaco gets old very quickly︉ once you get over the parties, bling lifestyle, nice cars and overpriced food. I know︊ guys who moved there and after 1-2 weeks they literally got depressed because of how︋ small the place is, they ended up going to France and Italy constantly to feel︌ "normal".
PS: If you're looking for a bank to deal with there that fits what︍ i said above, try Compagnie Monégasque de Banque. They don't like small fish, but if︎ you got money they'll open a lot of doors for you.
Thanks for the insight, this sounds somehow logical but still funny. Are you saying they prefer e.g. an dictator from Uganda to a tax evader from Belgium? it's difficult to make a picture of this, i.e. the split and maybe percentage between "legit" and non-legit" (well even definition of that is debateable). I don't︀ know anyone directly, I just know a lot of sportsmen, tennis players especially for some︁ reason, reside there.
Honestly, is there some benefit of banking in︄ a country like Monaco (or in similar category Andora, Switzerland...)? They all sound a bit︅ like has-beens, with good names from the past but do they truly offer something special︆ as of 2020?
Makes total sense, I've heard good things about Portugal︋ as well. 🙂 (which also may be in a better position for the future in terms︌ of government, state debt, economy etc.)
Honestly, is there some benefit of banking in︄ a country like Monaco (or in similar category Andora, Switzerland...)? They all sound a bit︅ like has-beens, with good names from the past but do they truly offer something special︆ as of 2020?
Makes total sense, I've heard good things about Portugal︋ as well. 🙂 (which also may be in a better position for the future in terms︌ of government, state debt, economy etc.)
Let's say︂ a dictator from Uganda with 250m in assets to play with will be more attractive︃ than some belgian tax evader showing up with 2.5m euros. That's what i mean't by︄ "The richer you are, the less conservative they get". There's always a way to bypass︅ the system and AML controls for the ultra rich, any bank that declines you because︆ they are "conservative" and you don't fit "their risk appetite" is probably bending over those︇ rules to a dozen other guys with 100x your assets. Documents can be forged, stories︈ can be made up and above all, numbers are just numbers, even auditors can be︉ fooled, most banks will jump straight into illegality if they see you bring them enough︊ cash to ensure their stability for the years ahead. Btw, the athletes living there enjoy︋ doing so because most of the cash they rack up in sponsorship contracts/advertising/etc is subject︌ to more advantageous tax regimes, and the proximity to european hubs where their main activities︍ take place is also a big selling point. They are close to major luxury brands︎ so for them it is even easier to network and find connections that can strike️ them more deals down the road. It's a combination of many factors really.
However, bank and country reputation definitely play a big role in doing business, and establishing a "credible" image that is tied to your name and your business. I wouldn't rate Monaco banks above Swiss banks or Andorra banks, but all of those have something in common: They open the doors when you must move assets, invest abroad and will attract a lot less attention and scrutiny towards your assets than say, a bank in a lower developed country that has a shaky banking system (Malta, cyprus, Georgia), etc). Also what i found︀ Monaco banks stood out for is the quality of the service you get when it︁ comes to tax advisory, wealth management, etc. They hire the best and they work with︂ the best. What ever you need, they got the contacts to get it done. They︃ were aware of tax optimization schemes i never heard of anywhere else, they are very︄ creative in the way they do things while keeping your name on a clean slate.︅ That's something you would never get in bank/private bank else where to be frank.
Portugal is definitely a good option, i only heard good things about it, especially with their︆ crypto-friendly tax regime.
However, bank and country reputation definitely play a big role in doing business, and establishing a "credible" image that is tied to your name and your business. I wouldn't rate Monaco banks above Swiss banks or Andorra banks, but all of those have something in common: They open the doors when you must move assets, invest abroad and will attract a lot less attention and scrutiny towards your assets than say, a bank in a lower developed country that has a shaky banking system (Malta, cyprus, Georgia), etc). Also what i found︀ Monaco banks stood out for is the quality of the service you get when it︁ comes to tax advisory, wealth management, etc. They hire the best and they work with︂ the best. What ever you need, they got the contacts to get it done. They︃ were aware of tax optimization schemes i never heard of anywhere else, they are very︄ creative in the way they do things while keeping your name on a clean slate.︅ That's something you would never get in bank/private bank else where to be frank.
Portugal is definitely a good option, i only heard good things about it, especially with their︆ crypto-friendly tax regime.
Well, it's not fair to compare Monaco vs south of Spain, Italy etc. Some︍ people's tax savings living in Monaco outweigh what they would pay for being a Spanish︎ resident. Also, many rich people have villas nearby Monaco to spend weekends and etc. So,️ they can enjoy both Monaco and French riviera lifestyles.
Also, it's not so expensive comparing to any major cities like NY, London, Paris etc.. Only real estate is very very expensive, but it's very small and unique place...
Also, it's not so expensive comparing to any major cities like NY, London, Paris etc.. Only real estate is very very expensive, but it's very small and unique place...
Exactly a person moving to Monaco for security and tax reasons would never consider Spain...lol.
It is an interesting topic but I'm afraid that most starting to read this thread realize quickly this is not for them and will quickly click to the next thread.
Yes but they don't live there and never would. Spain is just a good holiday destination. Spain only makes sense to live if you have made your money and can live of your investment income. In which case you will only pay a top rate of 23% tax on it which is not bad with everything considered. So not a bad place to retire if you have capital.
But then again Spain tax laws are crazy and keep changing...lol.
But then again Spain tax laws are crazy and keep changing...lol.
Exactly what i mean, if you can afford it and don't mind the small inconvenients, Monaco is definitely︀ a good option. If you have 2-5m in assets and you're trying to move there︁ to live things will be difficult, like i said it's not a place for small︂ fish, the guys i know who moved there had at least 15m net worth to︃ begin with. I mentioned Spain specifically for retirement, and Italy has interesting expat tax regimes︄ so it's definitely an option to consider, i know a few who made the move︅ and don't regret it, especially when coming from a high tax EU s**t hole like︆ Belgium or France.
Definitely, wouldn't gamble on moving there if i was running a business and still trying to build a future for︀ myself, spain's tax authority are some of the worst vultures you'll run into in the︁ world.
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