Obtaining tax residency in Monaco
- Thread starter Gediminas
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Gentlemen with all my respect and sympathy, "a lawyer told me", " a︅ friend told me" , "I read on the internet" "the cousin of my friend's son︆ in law told me" this is how urban legends are born. It s very simple:︇ this is a businessmen forum and anonimous. How come there is not ONE person to︈ write "yes it s me, the tax office followed me through facial recognition software and︉ my cell phone signal" Maybe because there is not such a thing? (yet) What will︊ happen next, you will be abducted by alliens?
Yes they do. I am not even exaggerating eek¤%&.
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"A climate of security reigns in Monaco Monte-Carlo making this prestigious setting even more appreciable. Security specialists are unanimous, it would be difficult to live in a place safer than Monaco. One policeman for every 100 residents, a system of 24-hour video surveillance spanning the entire surface area of the Principality, including the majority of residence halls, a transmitting system worthy of the best armies in the world, the possibility of blocking all access in and out of the Principality in several minutes. And we mustn't forget the surveillance teams inside of the Casino and in︀ all of the gambling establishments and hotels."
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Security in Monaco - Monaco︁ Monte-Carlo
That's my︄ concern. With such levels of data collection how does one protect themselves if the state︅ turns rogue? 😕 Imagine the n**i's had access to the sort of information collected on citizens︆ today more jews would have been killed. History repeats itself and its wrong to think︇ such things can never happen in Europe again.
--- start quote
"A climate of security reigns in Monaco Monte-Carlo making this prestigious setting even more appreciable. Security specialists are unanimous, it would be difficult to live in a place safer than Monaco. One policeman for every 100 residents, a system of 24-hour video surveillance spanning the entire surface area of the Principality, including the majority of residence halls, a transmitting system worthy of the best armies in the world, the possibility of blocking all access in and out of the Principality in several minutes. And we mustn't forget the surveillance teams inside of the Casino and in︀ all of the gambling establishments and hotels."
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Security in Monaco - Monaco︁ Monte-Carlo
That's my︄ concern. With such levels of data collection how does one protect themselves if the state︅ turns rogue? 😕 Imagine the n**i's had access to the sort of information collected on citizens︆ today more jews would have been killed. History repeats itself and its wrong to think︇ such things can never happen in Europe again.
I'm very surprised with this. I don't think this is possible because taxmen are slow. Not all highways toll gateways take pictures, and when they do, they don't keep them for long. I think all data is deleted after 7 days, maybe 30 days, no more. In the EU countries I know, this data is only available to the police, when they look for︀ a criminal. In what country did this happen?
Finally, there's a big difference between MC︁ and oppressive states. People trust Prince Albert. He just want his country to be very︂ safe. Nobody has ever been arrested for dubious or arbitrary reasons in MC.
Finally, there's a big difference between MC︁ and oppressive states. People trust Prince Albert. He just want his country to be very︂ safe. Nobody has ever been arrested for dubious or arbitrary reasons in MC.
Biggest myths there is im afraid. Times have changed in digital age where information can be obtained more readily even years later.
Exactly, the big difference MC between repressive states︀ with goal to extract everything. MC is all abou safety nothing more. It's true that︁ MC residents fully trust prince Albert and MC govenment.
Even in Dubai you have limitations︂ as blocked Viber, Whatapp etc..
Even in Dubai you have limitations︂ as blocked Viber, Whatapp etc..
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so you want to say that your face is not continuously scanned and compared with a huge data base if you are actually walking the streets or if you you hid and escaped through the barbed wires (is this Monaco or Auschwitz?) and no speach recognition software is used in all the countries you visit to︀ match the pitch of your voice through your cellphone to notify the Monaco Tax office︁ that you are not there?? How is this possible???
so you want to say that your face is not continuously scanned and compared with a huge data base if you are actually walking the streets or if you you hid and escaped through the barbed wires (is this Monaco or Auschwitz?) and no speach recognition software is used in all the countries you visit to︀ match the pitch of your voice through your cellphone to notify the Monaco Tax office︁ that you are not there?? How is this possible???
some people are overeacting like they trasnport every other week two tons of blanquita in their own fantasy and some others are playing along this paranoia to offer some " financial service" , albeit some medical doctor would be more appropriate
Well it's not paranoia. Let's say you live in Italy and you claim you live in Dubai and you are tax resident in Dubai. Sooner or later tax man will ask you to provide evidence that you really live in Dubai. If you have no evidence or you provide some not realistic evidence, they will calculate you tax in Italy.
I think you really misunderstood this all conversation here
I think you really misunderstood this all conversation here
That's enough for me to know. I would︆ never come there don't even for holidays, this type of surveillance breaks all privacy. Safe︇ place OK but I hope it's not what is required to stay so in other︈ countries.
It s another thing the tax man requesting your residency and tax residency papers and you , having some basic precautions not to provide a strong paper trail that you are still where you are not supposed to be and another thing to claim , that︀ the tax office is scanning your face , to check u r on the street︁ or not or the air waves in foreign countries to catch your voice signature.
What I mentioned︀ is not an urban legend. It is a real case where the person claimed to︁ be tax resident in a tax haven while still often visiting his home country. They︂ used card statements, neighbours and highway toll gate records against him. It went through three︃ courts (local court, regional court and supreme administrative court).
This happened in 2014 and it︄ was about €4k. Let that sink in, 6 years ago, today you have better data,︅ better reporting, better technology.
I can send you the real court decision PDF if don't︆ trust me and want proof (PM me if interested) though I'm not sure if it︇ will help you as it is 10 non-English pages of law speak. He didn't go︈ to jail but he had to pay back taxes + interest + a fine.
Yes it is possible. You can never count on data being "truly deleted". The same applies to the new passenger information exchange system valid from 2019. Officially they claim that the data will be "anonymized" after 6 months so that older information cannot be obtained, however how exactly that deanonymization looks and why keep anonymized data at all remains a mystery. Or maybe not a mystery, they just don't want to say this data will be available forever from now on.
By the way "data only available to the police" is nonsense. Usually police and state prosecutor work hand in hand (against the individual) with presumption of guilt. Only when you get︀ to court there should be presumption of innocence. What can happen is the tax office︁ automatically reports suspicion of fraud/tax evasion (the office is forced by law to report it),︂ police can investigate, police gets permission from prosecutor which is usually just a formality. Then︃ they get all the data they want.
And the situation is even worse than you︄ can imagine a) in China and b) in "golden cage" countries such as Monaco, Saudi︅ etc. Even the situation in the UK is insane, get on a bus and there︆ are 7 cameras inside.
This happened in 2014 and it︄ was about €4k. Let that sink in, 6 years ago, today you have better data,︅ better reporting, better technology.
I can send you the real court decision PDF if don't︆ trust me and want proof (PM me if interested) though I'm not sure if it︇ will help you as it is 10 non-English pages of law speak. He didn't go︈ to jail but he had to pay back taxes + interest + a fine.
Yes it is possible. You can never count on data being "truly deleted". The same applies to the new passenger information exchange system valid from 2019. Officially they claim that the data will be "anonymized" after 6 months so that older information cannot be obtained, however how exactly that deanonymization looks and why keep anonymized data at all remains a mystery. Or maybe not a mystery, they just don't want to say this data will be available forever from now on.
By the way "data only available to the police" is nonsense. Usually police and state prosecutor work hand in hand (against the individual) with presumption of guilt. Only when you get︀ to court there should be presumption of innocence. What can happen is the tax office︁ automatically reports suspicion of fraud/tax evasion (the office is forced by law to report it),︂ police can investigate, police gets permission from prosecutor which is usually just a formality. Then︃ they get all the data they want.
And the situation is even worse than you︄ can imagine a) in China and b) in "golden cage" countries such as Monaco, Saudi︅ etc. Even the situation in the UK is insane, get on a bus and there︆ are 7 cameras inside.
Monaco is a very nice place but not suitable for young people.
If you're over 50 and you want to "retire" is perfect.
Last time i went there i was impressed by the amount of escorts i saw.
Talking about Monaco strictness:
Isabela dos santos, billionaire daughter of Angola former Dictator had some serious wealth parked in Montecarlo: a 53M € apartment and 200+ millions in cash deposit.
I guess Monaco strict due diligence only applies to those average joe's with a few milllion of net worth, made with hard work.
If you're over 50 and you want to "retire" is perfect.
Last time i went there i was impressed by the amount of escorts i saw.
Talking about Monaco strictness:
Isabela dos santos, billionaire daughter of Angola former Dictator had some serious wealth parked in Montecarlo: a 53M € apartment and 200+ millions in cash deposit.
I guess Monaco strict due diligence only applies to those average joe's with a few milllion of net worth, made with hard work.
Exactly even once I took a rental hire car while on holiday in UK and drove through Victoria and saw ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) signs....lol. I would tell people 100% not to be ignorant of the mass surveillance they are under in the UK. HMRC even tells you openly in their letters they send you that they monitor social media and other forms of information to gather information on you 😕. You are being watched and even tracked if you drive︀ or use a phone on the train system nin%¤#.
UK ANPR systems are one of︁ the ‘world’s biggest surveillance systems’
Here's What TfL Learned From Tracking Your Phone On the︂ Tube
UK ANPR systems are one of︁ the ‘world’s biggest surveillance systems’
Here's What TfL Learned From Tracking Your Phone On the︂ Tube
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