How to store gold anonymously ?

[JohnLocke]

fatcat1970 said:
You're right, I just checked the DAS SAFE website and no mention of anonymous. A few months ago when I checked their website, anonymous was definitely available; so this change is recent. Their website now says the offer "non-anonymous" safes which suggests the anonymous option was removed recently.
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everything changes rapidly. To store Gold gets complicated.

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[daxbr]

Admin said:
Where would you dig this hole? 😀

There must be better ideas I believe ?
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A national park.

 

[uplana]

fatcat1970 said:
For sure it's best not to put all your golden eggs in one basket.

Using the anonymous vault in Vienna I mentioned above, not even the vault knows your name.
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how much Gold do you need to store there and can you come there with your own Gold?

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[fatcat1970]

daxbr said:
A national park.
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It's against the law to a dig hole and bury something in National Park ! And don't forget about angry grizzly bears. Better to buy land and do it there.

 

[fatcat1970]

uplana said:
how much Gold do you need to store there and can you come there with your own Gold?
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Das Safe in Vienna does not sell gold or anything else; all they do is rent boxes. You bring your own gold and can put as much gold as you can fit into the box and there's different size boxes.. You get $50K insurance included and can increase this amount.

 

[uplana]

That's not bad... and you don't have to provide any KYC - you simply walk in there and pay for the box and store your gold? No names, no nothing to provide?

Looking at their website:
https://www.dassafe.com/en/

Safe boxes​

Non”“anonymous safe boxes for things which shouldn't be kept at home
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[fatcat1970]

uplana said:
That's not bad... and you don't have to provide any KYC - you simply walk in there and pay for the box and store your gold? No names, no nothing to provide?

Looking at their website:
https://www.dassafe.com/en/
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See posts # 18. 19 and 20 in this thread. They stopped offering no name boxes earlier this year. Still, having a box in Das Safe full of gold is not reportable under FBAR or FATCA. And Das Safe isn't a bank or financial institution to do CRS I believe.

 

[daxbr]

fatcat1970 said:
It's against the law to a dig hole and bury something in National Park ! And don't forget about angry grizzly bears. Better to buy land and do it there.
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"against the law" "angry grizzly bears" Does that mean my stuff is even safer?

 

[MiddleEuroAsia]

Das safe changed a lot, they are very old school, I remember them having a very old clunky website that were barely functional lol, glad to know they are still in business.

back to topic, storing gold anonymously can be done if you want, specially in Asia (Singapore, HK...etc) where you can create a company with a nominee director in a reputable jurisdiction and buy gold/bullion under this company (obvious offshore 101 method, but hey it still works!), then you can buy gold and store it in places like le Freeport in Singapore (by using a service like sgpmx for example), or buy it and store it directly in the dealer's vault (like bullionstar).

I already store a lot of bullions and other collectibles like (Art, wine, Turkish silverware....etc) in le Freeport and other areas around the world, and I keep a couple of gold coins in my homes, and that's what I recommend every one to do, if you have a large amount of collectibles, don't go nuts and start digging in your backyard like a horny rabbit, but be sensible and keep a couple of coins in your home just in case and store the rest in a safe place where it will be monitored 24/7 and secured in a temperature-controlled military grade storage/vault.

bottom line, be cautious, but don't be over paranoid, otherwise, you won't be able to sleep well at night 🙂

 

[369]

MiddleEuroAsia said:
Das safe changed a lot, they are very old school, I remember them having a very old clunky website that were barely functional lol, glad to know they are still in business.

back to topic, storing gold anonymously can be done if you want, specially in Asia (Singapore, HK...etc) where you can create a company with a nominee director in a reputable jurisdiction and buy gold/bullion under this company (obvious offshore 101 method, but hey it still works!), then you can buy gold and store it in places like le Freeport in Singapore (by using a service like sgpmx for example), or buy it and store it directly in the dealer's vault (like bullionstar).

I already store a lot of bullions and other collectibles like (Art, wine, Turkish silverware....etc) in le Freeport and other areas around the world, and I keep a couple of gold coins in my homes, and that's what I recommend every one to do, if you have a large amount of collectibles, don't go nuts and start digging in your backyard like a horny rabbit, but be sensible and keep a couple of coins in your home just in case and store the rest in a safe place where it will be monitored 24/7 and secured in a temperature-controlled military grade storage/vault.

bottom line, be cautious, but don't be over paranoid, otherwise, you won't be able to sleep well at night 🙂
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le freeport means you stored it in their duty free zone ?
Correct that you need to declare what you put into the boxes?
Why singapore over swiss ?

 

[uplana]

Switzerland and Europe have no options to store your collectibles anonymous you will have to go to HK and Singapore, is that waht you say?

Wonder how you will bring 1 - 5 KG Gold to HK if you live in Europe? Same if you have say 30K - 50K Euro in cash.

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[369]

uplana said:
Switzerland and Europe have no options to store your collectibles anonymous you will have to go to HK and Singapore, is that waht you say?

Wonder how you will bring 1 - 5 KG Gold to HK if you live in Europe? Same if you have say 30K - 50K Euro in cash.
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singapore is not anonymous at all.
You need to provide full name and declare what is inside the box if you are storing at le freeport

 

[uplana]

369 said:
You need to provide full name and declare what is inside the box if you are storing at le freeport
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exactly what I thought. Also considering that you have to carry the collectibles with you makes it almost impossible.

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[MiddleEuroAsia]

369 said:
le freeport means you stored it in their duty free zone ?
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Yes

Correct that you need to declare what you put into the boxes?
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Yes you do but only to customs, and they don't ask for the UBO when you pass through them, meaning that you still can get relative anonymity by utilizing a simple offshore company setup with a nominee director.

Why singapore over swiss ?
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No custom (import/export) taxes, no vat, no limit on the amount of gold that you can carry in and out of the country (similar to HK in that regard), Switzerland in the other hand, gold with (995/1000 purity) is exempt from vat, while gold with less purity, silver and other bullions are taxed at 8% (if I remember correctly), customs some time hold your gold for further examination to test the gold's "authenticity", plus you are restricted to the amount of gold that you can bring (I think you can only bring 1m worth of gold) so yeah, I would chose SG or HK over Switzerland any day everyday.

Last edited: Oct 4, 2021

 

[fatcat1970]

MiddleEuroAsia said:
Yes

Yes you do but only to customs, and they don't ask for the UBO when you pass through them, meaning that you still can get relative anonymity by utilizing a simple offshore company setup with a nominee director.

No custom (import/export) taxes, no vat, no limit on the amount of gold that you can carry in and out of the country (similar to HK in that regard), Switzerland in the other hand, gold with (995/1000 purity) is exempt from vat, while gold with less purity, silver and other bullions are taxed at 8% (if I remember correctly), customs some time hold your gold for further examination to test the gold's "authenticity", plus you are restricted to the amount of gold that you can bring (I think you can only bring 1m worth of gold) so yeah, I would chose SG or HK over Switzerland any day everyday.
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There's no limit on how much gold you can bring into Singapore BUT:

"If you are hand-carrying Investment Precious Metals (IPMs) for personal use, please take note of the following:

• You are not required to take up a Customs permit for the importation of IPMs of a total weight not exceeding 0.5 kilogrammes.
• You are required to take up a GST relief permit before the importation of IPMs of a total weight exceeding 0.5 kilogrammes. The GST relief permit must be presented at the checkpoint for clearance."

 

[MiddleEuroAsia]

uplana said:
exactly what I thought. Also considering that you have to carry the collectibles with you makes it almost impossible.
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Not necessarily true, this is old news, if you use SGPMX stackermarket service, you can sign up with them with a personal or corporate account, and then make a transfer request and they will transfer your bullion from anywhere around the world (via their partners like brinks, loomis..etc), and once your account gets credited with your bullion, you can then redeem it and you can collect your gold yourself or make them deliver it to your preferred address (you can also trade your gold, get a loan on it...etc if you want to). so it's not impossible.

 

[MiddleEuroAsia]

fatcat1970 said:
There's no limit on how much gold you can bring into Singapore BUT:

"If you are hand-carrying Investment Precious Metals (IPMs) for personal use, please take note of the following:

• You are not required to take up a Customs permit for the importation of IPMs of a total weight not exceeding 0.5 kilogrammes.
• You are required to take up a GST relief permit before the importation of IPMs of a total weight exceeding 0.5 kilogrammes. The GST relief permit must be presented at the checkpoint for clearance."

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You are correct, for more than half a KG you are required to acquire the relief permit via the custom's tradenet portal. It's not hard to do if you want to do it yourself, but putting the wrong info is an offence and will attract penalties, so it's better to do it via reputable logistic company who would take care of the customs side for you.

Having said that, I would still choose Singapore over the old school, old money Switzerland

Last edited: Oct 4, 2021

 

[fatcat1970]

MiddleEuroAsia said:
You are correct, for more than half a KG you are required to acquire the relief permit via the custom's tradenet portal. It's not hard to do if you want to do it yourself, but putting the wrong info is an offence and will attract penalties, so it's better to do it via reputable logistic company who would take care of the customs side for you.

Having said that, I would still choose Singapore over the old school, old money Switzerland
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Any idea what the rules are for hand-carrying gold out of Singapore? Do you need to declare; do you need some type of permit; how many kg can you take?

 

[MiddleEuroAsia]

fatcat1970 said:
Do you need to declare
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Yes

do you need some type of permit
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Yes. Export permit, but as I said earlier, it's easier to do it by using a reputable logistics company, you can find the list of reputable agents here (logistics) and here (Air cargo). and it can also be issued by the dealer that you bought gold from from (or store gold with) like silverbullion for example (read).

how many kg can you take?
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There is no weight limit in the amount of gold that you can bring in and out of the country.

 

[369]

MiddleEuroAsia said:
Yes

Yes you do but only to customs, and they don't ask for the UBO when you pass through them, meaning that you still can get relative anonymity by utilizing a simple offshore company setup with a nominee director.

No custom (import/export) taxes, no vat, no limit on the amount of gold that you can carry in and out of the country (similar to HK in that regard), Switzerland in the other hand, gold with (995/1000 purity) is exempt from vat, while gold with less purity, silver and other bullions are taxed at 8% (if I remember correctly), customs some time hold your gold for further examination to test the gold's "authenticity", plus you are restricted to the amount of gold that you can bring (I think you can only bring 1m worth of gold) so yeah, I would chose SG or HK over Switzerland any day everyday.
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Any possibility to store in switzerland without UBO ?