EU Bank/EMI offering USD/SWIFT for Pro Gambler

[royalflush]

Hi,

I am a professional gambler in the UK. I gamble in my own name and invest in other professional gamblers. My UK high street bank is not happy with the level of risk, so has given me notice.

I am looking for a personal account, not a corporate account. Turnover $1m+/month. Happy to park some assets if private bank - not so much for EMI 😵

I have spoken to a lot of EMIs, they will offer a suitable account for gambling companies, but not a personal account.

Lots of EMIs offering EUR/SEPA but I need USD/SWIFT.

Looking for consultant/introducer with experience in this field.

 

[Don]

If I was you I would open multiple bank accounts in the UK, and try‌ to put a small amount of USD in a fixed-term deposit linked to your USD‍ account. Also, buy some securities, and get credit cards so it would be more difficult⁠ for them to close your account.

 

[royalflush]

Thanks for your reply Don, I have approached the problem in a similar way for‌ the past few years. One bank even cancelled my mortgage! There are a few issues‍ I have encountered:

1. Luckily for me, profits are increasing each year - but this also⁠ means the longevity of accounts is decreasing. I want to spend more time on my⁤ "business" and less time filling out bank application forms
   
2. I've been in this "business" for⁣ over 10 years, so I've burned through most of the high street banks (and I⁢ don't want to do anything that is not above board to enable me to open︀ another account)
   
3. There are few UK banks which offer USD accounts (I've burned them all)︁ and transacting GBP/USD every day would be expensive
   

 

[Don]

Wow, canceling a mortgage because of high risk, that's quite unheard of.
The issue with‌ many EU banks is that they only have one US correspondent bank and are scared‍ shitless to take any risk regarding USD. You are probably not profitable enough for the⁠ bank to tolerate your high riskiness so I don't think you can hold the relationship⁤ with the bank long term. The best would be to try to stay under the⁣ radar with lower amounts and use some EMI-s as intermediaries and don't deposit directly to⁢ gambling sites.

 

[OffshoreCorp]

@royalflush - is there any particular reason why you are not setting up a company?‌

 

[Sols]

Because gambling is still illegal on a federal level in the US, it's very hard‌ to find and hold USD for anything related to gambling. It's not just about finding‍ a bank that is happy with you (plenty would be), the currency is the problem.⁠ The local banks in the US can be very aggressive and banks risk losing their⁤ access to USD if there's any US-related gambling.

What you could do is receive USD⁣ into a custody/trustee account, and convert to GBP or other currencies as and when needed,⁢ or transfer to non-gambling related USD accounts. You will still run into source of funds︀ problems with your banks since you're earning money through a high-risk but at least you︁ won't irritate the bank by having gambling-related USD flowing through them. The account wouldn't be︂ in your name, though, so you'd have to check if the gambling sites are OK︃ with that.

Other options might be SEB in Luxembourg, Bank Frick in Liechtenstein or CFM︄ Indosuez and CMB in Monaco. You'll need to park at least a million in some︅ investment product to appease them. They are somewhat open wealth of gambling origin provided the︆ gambling activities are licensed, but USD may be a deal-breaker.

 

[rey skywalker]

cmb start from 5 m now days and is very pain in a*s for incoming‌ , mnot rally a good choice

 

[Roamer]

How much of your turnover is profit? At this level, you could probably sit down‌ and discuss with some private banking institutions and put this on the table as they‍ are. Not necessarily Coutts, but there are plenty of private banking in London. But that⁠ implies that your profit is close to the turnover mentioned, or that you have a⁤ couple of £mil at hand to put in the account at opening.

 

[royalflush]

This makes a lot of⁢ sense - EU banks with a single USD correspondent bank, profitable but not profitable enough︀ to risk that correspondent relationship. I'm expecting to pay some risk-adjusted fees for this. One︁ bank in the US would offer me an account, MVB Bank. There minimum monthly fee︂ was $20k which I can't justify (yet).

Also, to clarify, although I gamble in my︃ own name, I can't gamble online in the US. However I do invest in professional︄ gamblers in the US, and this is where the USD/SWIFT requirement comes from.

Without going into the specifics, there are tax advantages. The UK doesn't︇ tax gambling winnings. If I set up a company and booked the profits to the︈ company I would have to pay tax. One avenue I have not investigated yet is︉ setting up a company to process payments on my behalf.

If I run out of︊ options I may have to look at taxable structures. It would make a big dent︋ in profitability, but I'd rather earn less than none...

Thanks for the insight on USD︄ restrictions. I have some knowledge of wire act/uigea/paspa/state-level regulation (and I only invest in gamblers︅ in regulated states - playing at regulated operators). I should be able to demonstrate to︆ a bank there is no risk of my account breaking any laws/compliance violations. I _think_︇ I need to find a bank small enough to take the time to understand my︈ business model and the risks involved, and with experience in gambling so I'm not starting︉ at square one.

Re: custody/trustee - I've attempted the trustee route - US banks said︊ no. There may still be opportunities there that I have not fully exhausted. There are︋ considerations when deciding on trust structure which affect the tax benefits.

Re: gambling in my︌ name - this isn't a big issue to be honest, most of my USD needs︍ are for investing in other gamblers.

Re: suggest banks, thanks for the suggestions, I have︎ already reached out to Frick and will give the others a go.

This is useful too, I'll scratch‍ cmb off the list. Saved me some time.

For every $100k out, I︁ get roughly $150k in. I am gambling so the amounts and variance are irregular.

I do roughly 200 transactions out, 100 in per month. Majority with US individuals. Transaction size︂ ranges from $1k to $50k.

I have spoken with a few banks that are happy︃ with the source of wealth and are happy for me to park some assets with︄ them. They can't support the day-to-day turnover.

If approaching private banks, do I need an︅ introducer or can I "walk in the front door"? Having already spoken to some private︆ banks who said yes to assets/no to turnover I expect most private banks will not︇ entertain both.

 

[Roamer]

Have you looked into an LLP (limited liability partnership) as unlike a Limited Company, it⁠ is a passthrough entity which only taxes its members and not the company itself (i.e.,⁤ you would pay income tax as you would do now, and no corporation tax). Check⁣ though if this is still valid with gambling income, but I don't see why it⁢ wouldn't be?

So that's roughly £650,000︁ profit per month for £1,000,000 monthly turnover. Overall, £5mil per year of profits, you should︂ definitely email several private banks in London.

Even speak to Les Ambassadeurs, Colony Club, Crockfords,︃ and the likes, and with a promise of spending there X amount yearly, I am︄ sure they'll be able to connect you with useful banking institutions.

So if I were︅ you, I'd check for LLP taxation of gambling income, then if it helps with bank︆ accounts go ahead. If not, sit down with private bankers in full transparency and/or speak︇ to private casinos in London. They will most definitely help but you'll have to give︈ them something in exchange. Not the easiest routes but you'll get there, I am not︉ worried for a second, especially if the gambling is debt-free and you can prove how︊ legit it is.

 

[Roamer]

Oh and for the London casinos... Don't knock their email inbox with a "I would‌ like some help with a bank account" but more of a "I currently spend £XX,000,000‍ a year in gambling and I would love to join your institution for the after⁠ pandemic" and when they respond, mention about banking problems and if they can facilitate that⁤ so you can then spend some money in their establishment (and "entertain some guests", they⁣ love that).

 

[royalflush]

I like the idea of asking the casinos for help @Roamer 😉 Unfortunately a lot of‌ my profits are, shall we say "establishment-specific", and sometimes I'm beating the house, so I‍ don't tend to have long relationships with all of them. I could potentially offer to⁠ play there "recreationally" but that might cost more than $20k month which is my current⁤ "cheapest option".

It's an option when the land-based casinos reopen in a few months.

Accountant looking into LLP.

 

[Roamer]

Got it.

If you can go the LLP route it would be better and easier.‌ You still have to open a bank account with it and explain the sources of‍ your LLP's revenue, but it should be fine especially with no line of credit (which⁠ I believe is forbidden now for gambling anyway).

Are your gambling revenues specific to a⁤ game (i.e. horse racing, poker, greyhound racing, etc) or multi-games? Is it solely online or⁣ both? I assumed it was poker since you stake for other players (which you should⁢ also check with said accountant whether that income would be classified as gambling, too, or︀ not).

 

[IBO Panama]

Come to Panama, we can have a coffee and discuss

 

[Wade7]

Hey @royalflush, have you found a solution yet? I am UK based and could‌ potentially give a hand if you haven't sorted it yet.

 

[royalflush]

I now have LLP structure in place, but still having trouble finding a bank or‌ EMI that will entertain the taboo trilogy of gambling/usd/swift.

Feel free to post in the‍ thread or PM.