Do you still trust Proton Mail ? ? ?

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@wellington : A nice and interesting story, thanks for sharing!
Do you mean “HK” or “UK” here? (On a QWERTZ keyboard, all these letters⁠ are close 🙂 )

BTW, I presume that the service you are mentioning does not exist⁤ now – would you mind sharing, just roughly, what was the reason for the termination?⁣

Keep it⁢ well 😉
 
First started putting together whilst in the UK briefly, built out⁤ whilst in Switzerland and then moved to HK (Corporate).

No, with all the adverse noise⁣ (years-years ago) towards privacy, even though it was never commercialised i didn't feel comfortable (think⁢ it was around the time of terror attacks in Europe) if something i created /︀ owned / operated was used nefariously.

I see the need for it, but also recognised︁ the potential negative societal impact and personal loss of liberty if it was used by︂ such actors.
 
Yes, there‍ is general KYC/AML requirement or a provider isn't operating within legal framework. Whether KYC is⁠ triggered by AML or IaaS regulations isn't relevant.

Altering statements and concluding post factum is⁤ not something that has merit in discussion.
 
1. This conversation ended a week ago
2. Staff has decided that noone is allowed to⁠ call you out
3. There isn't an international requirement to log no matter how many⁤ times you say it.
 
Might have missed something, KYC /⁠ AML for what?

Protonmail? -> Obviously not, transactions under a certain threshold don't require AML,⁤ and KYC isn't a legal requirement in any jurisdiction for email/communication service the last time⁣ i was involved in it.

It is however encouraged for obvious reasons (Anti-Terrorism) which is⁢ used as a catch-all used for mass surveillance for crime, tax evasion etc.

As for︀ VPN's no one really knows, whether they log, i read some court transcripts where at︁ least one provider definitively is logging, and suspect it goes down to individual service providers︂ regardless of claims.
 
For when the state has an entry the last thing you want is their foot‌ on your throat, and even if it comes out in court that you are logging‍ your company name will be addressed as 'VPN Service Provider 1' etc, and the perps⁠ going to prison so he ain't talking and even if he does when he gets⁤ out you'd have either sold the company, or he is now a con and the⁣ last thing he's gonna talk about is a VPN and even if he does who⁢ will listen to a crimb.

Oh yes, i see on Aseannow.com︁ recently a mass push for state surveillance and money laundering lol the plebs are like︂ sheep these days.
 
This is becoming rather interesting.⁠ Mr, I don't need anybody to decide that I should not be called out. You're⁤ not polite and you are quite provocative. Mind your business and don't comment things perfidiously.⁣ What you are doing here is your responsivility. Yes, the discussion ended. Though, not in⁢ a way you think or state.

I don't know if anything is missed.
 
Moving on... the only people that need surveillance as shown during covid is Government Ministers.‌

If a Western nation extends their surveillance for mere subscription(s) and the like, only a‍ fool would remain in such a nation, for that my friend is authoritarianism .
 
It's fascism. Not fool(s) but people without scrupules and a weak⁤ ones would remain in such societies.
 
I have been using Protonmail long time and never doubted it. What people discuss here‌ is in illegal cases, why would they protect it ?
 
Sure on⁠ a national level things are turning right, but ultimately its EU that has a say⁤ and I wouldn't consider them right wing at all.
 
EU is supra-national organization. I do not consider it more influential then any particular⁠ EU member nation state. Non papers are created in national capitals and formal decisions in⁤ Strasbourg and Brussels.

I see conflicting views about EU across OCT; that it's either omni-powerfull⁣ - EUSSR or subjugated to US.

From political history a conclusion can be derived about⁢ similar forms of societal control exerted by different political extremists.

We are members of a︀ society. I sincerely believe that civil rights and liberties must not be downgraded non-ethically, illegally︁ and perfidiously thru AML controls and other fear inducing naratives. Having said that I also︂ believe that functional and effective governments must exist.

Proper corporate structuring, tax optimizations, access to︃ financial institutions and doing international business should not be by default suspicious. But, let's be︄ honest - majority of people - here at OCT as well - want zero tax︅ liability and are angry when taxmen come for their share.

It's up to people not︆ to accept those extreme governmental measures. I do not believe that elections and social participation︇ in general aren't important and that there is some omni-potent force that controls and manages︈ everything and everybody.
 
Both can be true at the same‍ time. While yes, if the US tells EU to jump they will ask "how high?"⁠ but they have cracked down on basically all european tax havens and will force immigrant⁤ quotas like we've seen with Bulgaria.
 
Times a
Times are changing ofcourse

Germany will︇ become the sick man of Europe- France will become the dominant country - which means︈ the EU falls in line or it breaks apart.

Breaking apart is the most probable︉ outcome.

France (Friendly Allie but own interests), UK (US Vassal - shackled), Sweden (Naval) will︊ be the ones that survive - whether they thrive or not comes down to whether︋ they can rid themselves of surveillance/socialism/ etc

Just my view.

Switzerland the moment it decided︌ to introduce sanctions against Russia tied itself firmly to Germany’s downfall also IMO and the︍ US Fed basically bailed them out alongside internal bail in debasement which the Swiss voted︎ against in 2018/19.

Monaco was all about extracting the wealthiest Europeans - but eventually it️ will be pulled into France as the Wealth of Europe passes not onwards but predominantly‌ to the states.

For those that think Switzerland will not change or already hasn't, I‍ put it from this perspective - I am or rather in the so called 1%,⁠ I wouldn’t put anything there (additional) and none of my circle would either and all⁤ my Swiss friends are pulling their wealth out of it.

Switzerland is firmly not needed⁣ by France and in the world we move to its luxury items sold to the⁢ masses won’t have demand because their client base are dying off creating a influx on︀ the secondary markets - same with gold / silver jewelry as I mentioned on here︁ months back - the moment gold shot up everyone and their grandma was trading in︂ heirlooms for paper currency.

The East hoards gold, uses silver the West wears Prada, and︃ live in disney land.

Case and Point, Switzerland was built on the idea of Privacy.︄

Yet its embracing surveillance : Swiss leaders plan to enforce global crypto reporting framework

The protections that Protonmail had being Swiss based is no longer a protection.

CARF Countries FYI︅ - See Belize another previous privacy focused state (in context).: Armenia, Australia, Austria, Barbados, Belgium,︆ Belize, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece,︇ Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Korea, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Romania,︈ Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States︉ of America; the Crown Dependencies of Guernsey, Jersey, and Isle of Man; and the United︊ Kingdom’s Overseas Territories of the Cayman Islands and Gibraltar.
 
Whilst thread topic is ProtonMail risks - certainly not merits - the matter is about‌ technological standards, nominal Swiss regulations and international legal assistance, beside other non public international agreements.‍

@incognitbro presents nominal fact that ProtonMail - and other privacy declared providers - isn't logging⁠ metadata which @wellington accepts.

Without getting into polemics with @wellington, @Sols and @incognitbro, I would remind them and the OCT about one quite secret and long program that⁤ US and Germany had with certain Swiss vendors - Crypto AG being one of them⁣

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...ity/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/
Proton AG and it's products are interesting but can be readily substituted with higher⁢ nominal and effective security margin.

Regarding @wellington comment, Switzerland was in this kind of political︀ situation - differential neutrality - between 1919-1938 before absolute neutrality was declared again shortly before︁ WWII.

Magistra vitae est.
 
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