Do I understand that US financial institutions DO NOT report non-us person deposits in them?

[neweraoffshore]

@Martin Everson, the US has very high freedom of contracts. It would be a violation against the contract. The UBO nominee has to hide for his life in case he would do that. And it is almost impossible to do transfer after the real UBO took over the bank account and changed all passwords, emails, 2 factor etc.

Edit: Artemis was a little faster 😀

 

[Artemis Eleutheria]

neweraoffshore said:
And it is almost impossible to do transfer after the real UBO took over the bank account and changed all passwords, emails, 2 factor etc.
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Unfortunately, if you do this secretly then Martin Everson would be correct in that it may be considered bank fraud ... but you might do so openly by being named say the CFO of the company ... in which case it would not be bank fraud.

Also worth pointing out that you would not be the real UBO in this setup ... the real UBO would be the "nominee" (which is no longer a nominee but the real UBO).

You would only have a contract that would permit you to buy the company for $X at any time over the next Y years ... said contract would include limitations on anything the UBO (not you) may do that could reduce the value of the comany ... such as paying out dividends, it would also deny him the right of selling the comany, etc.

 

[Martin Everson]

Artemis Eleutheria said:
That would be breach of the conditions of the options contract.
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When they are sat on a beach in Caribbean the tax evading UBO can do nothing. It's a like a drug dealer being robbed of his drugs and going to the police to complain..lol.

Artemis Eleutheria said:
There is no bank fraud as long as the "nominee" is the beneficial owner and not a nominee.
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The nominee is just that a nominee and they are not the UBO and can never be. No nominee will risk his neck with US Federal Justice system.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[Artemis Eleutheria]

Martin Everson said:
When they are sat on a beach in Caribbean the tax evading UBO can do nothing. It's a like a drug dealer being robbed of his drugs and going to the police to complain..lol.
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I disagree with your take on that, I would take him to court in a heartbeat.

Martin Everson said:
The nominee is just that a nominee and they are not the UBO and can never be.
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This is not correct, there is nothing to stop anyone from being a UBO in whatever company they want.

Martin Everson said:
No nominee will risk his neck with US Federal Justice system.
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No nominee will risk his neck anywhere ... thus there must be no risks to his neck.

 

[Martin Everson]

Artemis Eleutheria said:
I disagree with your take on that, I would take him to court in a heartbeat.
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Ok we have to disagree here.

Artemis Eleutheria said:
there is nothing to stop anyone from being a UBO in whatever company they want.
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How did we get to this level of debate 🙄.

Artemis Eleutheria said:
No nominee will risk his neck anywhere ... thus there must be no risks to his neck
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A professional nominee with a legal background will scoff at this. Committing fraud in US is no joking matter.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[Artemis Eleutheria]

Martin Everson said:
A professional nominee with a legal background will scoff at this. Committing fraud in US is no joking matter.
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It need not be fraudulent at all. Call options contract are well established.

Anyone considering it would be well adviced to involve a corp lawyer though, as it may be attacked as fraudulent if not structured properly.

 

[Artemis Eleutheria]

On the other hand, I do not believe there is a single solution anywhere on this forum that may not be attacked by the Govt if they think they have something to gain by it. They write the laws, they interpret the laws, they enforce the laws ... you are never safe from them.

 

[Osleak]

After 4 pages of discussions it's not clear if the US bank account personal non us resident or corporate hold by an offshore entity like seychelles with ubo and director (same person) resident in eu country...

@Martin Everson told yes and not
@Milky Moon told not if 0% interest bank account

Could you please do few examples to clarify?

 

[neweraoffshore]

@Osleak it will be very unlikely that they will open an US bank account with an US entity hold by a seychelles company. Anyway they want you to show real UBO. And they at least want the nominee director of the US company to visit the bank and open the bank account.

 

[lavel]

It's all rubbish and people should know that this is only possible if some middleman is going to the bank and has access to your funds. Do you want to risk that? if YES proceed if NO stay far away from this.

 

[Martin Everson]

Osleak said:
@Martin Everson told yes and not
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?????

My posts are clear. What part did you not understand?

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[Osleak]

Martin Everson said:
Yes that is right nothing gets reported if no interest is paid
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Here you told

Martin Everson said:
Wrong

Read the definition of i.e "United Kingdom Reportable Account" and notice the "or" in the statement.

The term “United Kingdom Reportable Account” means a Financial Account maintained by a Reporting U.S. Financial Institution if: (i) in the case of a Depository Account, the account is held by an individual resident in the United Kingdom and more than $10 of interest is paid to such account in any given calendar year; or (ii) in the case of a Financial Account other than a Depository Account, the Account Holder is a resident of the United Kingdom, including entities that certify that they are resident in the United Kingdom for tax purposes, with respect to which U.S. source income that is subject to reporting under chapter 3 or chapter 61 of subtitle A of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code is paid or credited.
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Here you told that is wrong that account with no interest will not reported... here you have post also the law but need to understand what are source of income subjet to reporting under chapter 3 or 61 of subtitle A of the US internal revenue code

 

[Martin Everson]

Take my latest post with quote from FATCA agreement..apologies for that oversight in previous post.

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[LegitBananas]

Martin Everson said:
Take my latest post with quote from FATCA agreement..apologies for that oversight in previous post.
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So if you own a depository account that earns no interest, does info get automatically exchanged? Because it says here


or (ii) in the case of a Financial Account other than a Depository Account the Account Holder is a resident of the United Kingdom, including entities that certify that they are resident in the United Kingdom for tax purposes, with respect to which U.S.


I would assume that this means only non-depository accounts get automatically reported (in the second scenario)

 

[Martin Everson]

It is as it says and is clear so make no assumptions.

Hopefully your not one of the daft people hiding an account in US. You know the ones that argue you with all the time about opening an account in US to avoid CRS despite me showing evidence of reporting. The same people who believe that i.e CRS can be avoided by emptying your account before end of each year....lol.

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[hernanday]

Doesn't USA have tax sharing agreements? I could be wrong, but just because they aren't in CRS does this mean they aren't sharing info anyways through the tax agreements?

 

[hernanday]

Martin Everson said:
It is indeed. However it's no longer acceptable to accept dirty untaxed money period. As a consequence many Swiss banks have gone out of business or been taken over. At least two I banked with disappeared overnight at the time i.e Frey and Hottinger.

Much more will follow also as Swiss banks can't charge clients fees like they used to be able to charge the criminals that banked with them. They now have to be competitive and their asset base has shrunk with no dirty money....lol.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/perfect-storm_many-swiss-private-banks-facing--extinction-/45178358
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But why is that, provided the customer is not named Osama bin Laden or Pablo and on some obviously criminal wanted list, what are the penalties these private banks face by taking joe the plumber from Australia or Canada or NZ and giving them an account?

 

[Martin Everson]

hernanday said:
But why is that, provided the customer is not named Osama bin Laden or Pablo and on some obviously criminal wanted list, what are the penalties these private banks face by taking joe the plumber from Australia or Canada or NZ and giving them an account?
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Firstly Joe the plumber from Australia is unlikely to meet the often $1m minimum to open a Swiss private banking account. If Joe the plumber has $1m+ then Joe the plumber is more likely Joe the drug dealer.

Plumbers with $1m+ are not common. Swiss banks now need to to know in depth your background and require proof of how wealth was accumulated. Before it used to be a tick box question where you could deposit $100m and tick a box saying source of funds is "personal savings" and no further questions were asked.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[hernanday]

Martin Everson said:
Firstly Joe the plumber from Australia is unlikely to meet the often $1m minimum to open a Swiss private banking account. If Joe the plumber has $1m+ then Joe the plumber is more likely Joe the drug dealer.

Plumbers with $1m+ are not common. Swiss banks now need to to know in depth your background and require proof of how wealth was accumulated. Before it used to be a tick box question where you could deposit $100m and tick a box saying source of funds is "personal savings" and no further questions were asked.
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I mean, I guess this varies by country, but plumbers where I live clear 6 figures a year, are busy as hell and routinely make $100s of dollars an hour. There'd be nothing unusual about a master plumber making $200k-$300k+ a year, especially if he owns his own firm.

 

[Educate]

Swiss accounts are a meme and are ratting out people. Not trustworthy