Crypto trader, hodler - bank acc and relocation
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I get your point. But︁ OP would only need to legitimise a much smaller amount. They and their spouse can︂ claim they earned this 300k via their job (over many years) and supplement any unexplained︃ amount but for example “sale of apartment” or “inheritance”. Even if it never happened. They︄ (PT) basically want your investment in their property and they may just accept this reason︅ without a massive investigation into the real source of the 300k. That is what I︆ have heard. But this was maybe 3 years back so maybe the due diligence has︇ become stricter now.
My friend,︀ you probably don't know what mean to pass due diligence with high risk country passport︁ 🙂
Nobody will believe you until to prove for them documents in style all they want.︂ Don't even think to try fabricate that you can't prove with docs - you hesitate︃ and they will throw you.
If you claim job income - they will ask for︄ payslips for all years, tax certificate for all years, they will calculate your spending's with︅ all these years and will ask for bank statements for all this years. Ah, don't︆ forget about sanctions. They will check your employer, and if it don't like for them︇ (for example surname of some executive will be same to the surname of some sanctioned︈ person) - you will be kicked 🙂
And only after all this things, if your bank︉ accounts balance will exceed 300k you could continue. In other way - no no no.︊ Even if you withdraw money from bank account to paper cash and then deposit again︋ - compliance will not perceive this money. And I could say, that in country of︌ OP residence not many people hold money in bank in such sum, they use paper︍ cash.
Personally I got this situation with Cyprus few years ago. And I don't believe︎ from that time situation became easier.
5-10 years ago, yes, it was much more simple.️ But not now.
West Europe is too much scare of money from east Europe, so it's a much more easy to reject person, that got some theoretical problems because of it.
Nobody will believe you until to prove for them documents in style all they want.︂ Don't even think to try fabricate that you can't prove with docs - you hesitate︃ and they will throw you.
If you claim job income - they will ask for︄ payslips for all years, tax certificate for all years, they will calculate your spending's with︅ all these years and will ask for bank statements for all this years. Ah, don't︆ forget about sanctions. They will check your employer, and if it don't like for them︇ (for example surname of some executive will be same to the surname of some sanctioned︈ person) - you will be kicked 🙂
And only after all this things, if your bank︉ accounts balance will exceed 300k you could continue. In other way - no no no.︊ Even if you withdraw money from bank account to paper cash and then deposit again︋ - compliance will not perceive this money. And I could say, that in country of︌ OP residence not many people hold money in bank in such sum, they use paper︍ cash.
Personally I got this situation with Cyprus few years ago. And I don't believe︎ from that time situation became easier.
5-10 years ago, yes, it was much more simple.️ But not now.
West Europe is too much scare of money from east Europe, so it's a much more easy to reject person, that got some theoretical problems because of it.
You are right about golden visa/passport difference.
But, actually if stick to the topic, both of︀ cyprus visa/passports programs are not directly available to crypto wealthy people from east europe without︁ schemes of hiding that money from crypto and appease cyprus banks with compliance 🙂
But, actually if stick to the topic, both of︀ cyprus visa/passports programs are not directly available to crypto wealthy people from east europe without︁ schemes of hiding that money from crypto and appease cyprus banks with compliance 🙂
what's the nationality ? did OP︋ say it is a high risk country ? I saw only:
2) I live in︌ a third-world country which means owning significant amount of money in crypto could attract some︍ unwanted attention. Eastern Europe country.
If high risk yes probably won't work but it all︎ depends on which one.
2) I live in︌ a third-world country which means owning significant amount of money in crypto could attract some︍ unwanted attention. Eastern Europe country.
If high risk yes probably won't work but it all︎ depends on which one.
This is not actually the case,
The golden passport scheme required 150,000 to be paid to the government as an︀ investment, together with a 2.5mln investment, in this case there would be an issue with︁ the source of funds. However, I note the following:
(a) The requirements for the permanent︂ residence scheme are substantially different, hence, the payment can be made in crypto (it will︃ be converted into FIAT first through an EMI).
(b) Crypto Assets have now been implemented︄ to the Cyprus AML Law, so there is nothing 'illegal'.
(c) Developers in Cyprus have︅ started being open to accepting crypto payments.
The golden passport scheme required 150,000 to be paid to the government as an︀ investment, together with a 2.5mln investment, in this case there would be an issue with︁ the source of funds. However, I note the following:
(a) The requirements for the permanent︂ residence scheme are substantially different, hence, the payment can be made in crypto (it will︃ be converted into FIAT first through an EMI).
(b) Crypto Assets have now been implemented︄ to the Cyprus AML Law, so there is nothing 'illegal'.
(c) Developers in Cyprus have︅ started being open to accepting crypto payments.
Please name at least *one* third-world country from east Europe who is *not* high risk according to FATF/EU and other organizations who made this division.
Sure, if you will treat Poland or Latvia as a third-world country - probably you will be right 🙂
1. Could you prove it with laws?︃ AFAIK crypto is not regulated in Cyprus at this moment, so it's a question if︄ it could be or not.
2. Please name at least 1 EMI who will allow︅ you to transfer 150k/300k EUR per payment.
Please name at least 1 cyprus bank who will accept east europe passport holder with crypto︇ SOF as a client.
If so, it really cool. Could you name few?︉ I'm interesting if it really possible, to make such investments directly with crypto.
But no︊ TRNC please.
Sure, if you will treat Poland or Latvia as a third-world country - probably you will be right 🙂
1. Could you prove it with laws?︃ AFAIK crypto is not regulated in Cyprus at this moment, so it's a question if︄ it could be or not.
2. Please name at least 1 EMI who will allow︅ you to transfer 150k/300k EUR per payment.
Please name at least 1 cyprus bank who will accept east europe passport holder with crypto︇ SOF as a client.
If so, it really cool. Could you name few?︉ I'm interesting if it really possible, to make such investments directly with crypto.
But no︊ TRNC please.
Cryptos are now regulated for AML purposes as of 18/2/2021, through the︀ transposition of AMLD5. We are actually waiting for CySEC to prepare the forms where Crypto︁ Asset Service Providers will be registering in the CASP Register, which should be available within︂ April.
Payments can be through Cyprus or foreign EMIs or crypto exchange platforms. I note︃ that there are universities and event hospitals in Cyprus that accept crypto payments, such as︄ the University of Nicosia.
The payment will be made to the developer in FIAT. In the event that the︇ client wants to open a personal account then it will have to be an EMI︈ or a foreign bank/emi.
I would prefer not to name particular developers, I have collaborated with at︊ least 2 who accept this. As indicated above we have universities, restaurants etc that accept︋ bitcoin. This is public you can even check this online.
If you are indeed interested︌ in investing I would be happy to discuss further.
Payments can be through Cyprus or foreign EMIs or crypto exchange platforms. I note︃ that there are universities and event hospitals in Cyprus that accept crypto payments, such as︄ the University of Nicosia.
The payment will be made to the developer in FIAT. In the event that the︇ client wants to open a personal account then it will have to be an EMI︈ or a foreign bank/emi.
I would prefer not to name particular developers, I have collaborated with at︊ least 2 who accept this. As indicated above we have universities, restaurants etc that accept︋ bitcoin. This is public you can even check this online.
If you are indeed interested︌ in investing I would be happy to discuss further.
The country is UA. You can visit schengen area visa-free but I still do believe that the country is considered as high-risk.
If the country will declare low taxes on crypto it won't solve the issue bc declaring any substantial wealth in our country won't︀ guarantee you any safety.
If the country will declare low taxes on crypto it won't solve the issue bc declaring any substantial wealth in our country won't︀ guarantee you any safety.
In that case you could also look into Poland. Poland is very Ukraine-friendly and most newly naturalised citizens are Ukrainian.
Yes taxes are very high but I believe you could get residency there easily as an Ukrainian (check with lawyers etc).
In order to naturalise in Poland language is key (and it's a hard language), and if you speak Ukrainian you can easily learn Polish as︀ the languages are very similar. Could be as low as 3 years but again you︁ should check how many years you need to wait. Not more than 5.
But this︂ is probably more if you have the time and are not in a hurry.
Then get the citizenship and move to another EU country with more favourable crypto taxation a︃ few years later. thu&¤#
Yes taxes are very high but I believe you could get residency there easily as an Ukrainian (check with lawyers etc).
In order to naturalise in Poland language is key (and it's a hard language), and if you speak Ukrainian you can easily learn Polish as︀ the languages are very similar. Could be as low as 3 years but again you︁ should check how many years you need to wait. Not more than 5.
But this︂ is probably more if you have the time and are not in a hurry.
Then get the citizenship and move to another EU country with more favourable crypto taxation a︃ few years later. thu&¤#
Again - we talk about reality how to pass crypto SOF and send money to Cyprus directly.
Banks don't allow it - so it︀ no way.
The simple requirement that︃ for this visa local bank account is required can't be done for crypto people and︄ all scheme can't work as is?
Looking for crypto friendly bank is main concern on︅ the topic.
If you suggest Cyprus as a investment advice with visa for OP and︆ at same time saying about foreign bank - sorry, but it didn't helped much.
If OP will figure out how to legally cashout his crypto to some bank, he sure︇ will be free to invest and pay to any place in the world, even in︈ Cyprus, Spain, etc. But all this will be AFTER cashout process.
Are they work illegal so you can't︍ tell the names? As I said in previous message - I'm quite interested in investing︎ if everything is clear from the side of developers/laws and they are not just a️ scam, which is not rare thing in development area in Cyprus.
Banks don't allow it - so it︀ no way.
The simple requirement that︃ for this visa local bank account is required can't be done for crypto people and︄ all scheme can't work as is?
Looking for crypto friendly bank is main concern on︅ the topic.
If you suggest Cyprus as a investment advice with visa for OP and︆ at same time saying about foreign bank - sorry, but it didn't helped much.
If OP will figure out how to legally cashout his crypto to some bank, he sure︇ will be free to invest and pay to any place in the world, even in︈ Cyprus, Spain, etc. But all this will be AFTER cashout process.
Are they work illegal so you can't︍ tell the names? As I said in previous message - I'm quite interested in investing︎ if everything is clear from the side of developers/laws and they are not just a️ scam, which is not rare thing in development area in Cyprus.
Sorry, what a sense in relocation to poland, pay taxes there for few years, naturalize and︂ again move to another desired EU county?
As for me it's a overcomplicated and long︃ thing without some actual benefits.
Comparing to UAE, where you don't need to pay taxes,︄ when you need to stay only 1 year Poland much harder way.
As for me it's a overcomplicated and long︃ thing without some actual benefits.
Comparing to UAE, where you don't need to pay taxes,︄ when you need to stay only 1 year Poland much harder way.
As I said you can check the universities etc that︄ accept bitcoin payments. These can be exchanged to fiat by a crypto-exchange eg bitpay, it︅ works fine for the University of Nicosia and the other organisations I have mentioned.
With respect to developers, I just don't want to advertise anyone publicly especially since more could︆ be willing to accept payments, especially having in mind that they could get their payment︇ in FIAT through a crypto exchange.
With respect to developers, I just don't want to advertise anyone publicly especially since more could︆ be willing to accept payments, especially having in mind that they could get their payment︇ in FIAT through a crypto exchange.
Sorry, again, but payment to university have 0 sense in discussion of investment to Cyprus, cashout of OP and other question topped up here.
Okay, university accept bitcoins. So what? How it help OP with his problem? He come to BoC or Hellenic and say to the manager: "i'm from ukraine, open account for me please, your university accept bitcoins, so please accept my crypto too?" 😀
BTW you don't mentioned 'organisations' here. you mentioned only UoN︀ 🙂
Could you pm︃ me names of that?
Okay, university accept bitcoins. So what? How it help OP with his problem? He come to BoC or Hellenic and say to the manager: "i'm from ukraine, open account for me please, your university accept bitcoins, so please accept my crypto too?" 😀
BTW you don't mentioned 'organisations' here. you mentioned only UoN︀ 🙂
Could you pm︃ me names of that?
Dubai setup is ok. But OP wants to live in the EU. So after Dubai setup he still needs EU residency or (better) an EU passport.
In my opinion the EU citizenship should be the ultimate goal here. Only that gives︀ you the flexibility to try out multiple countries in the EU. And why overpay if︁ you don't have to.
Potential paths to get EU citizenship after Dubai setup:
Malta
Malta Golden Visa: 15 years to citizenship so forget about it. Who can live in Malta︂ this long.
or - Buy Malta passport outright, expensive, potentially very heavy due diligence. Not︃ worth the money IMO. But could be an option after Dubai setup.
Cyprus
Cyprus Golden︄ Visa: Maybe 8 years but you need Greek language skills (difficult to learn) and depends︅ on a final interview where anything can happen. Some bureaucrat can just reject you. Process︆ generally not very transparent and probably an additional 3 years waiting time after the 8︇ years. Also I think you have to be present in Cyprus 365 days in the︈ last year or something weird like that.
So process is 11 years, doesn't seem very︉ reliable, but would be happy to hear about anyone who was naturalised this way.
I am not saying it's not possible, but its long and not guaranteed even.
Portugal Golden︊ Visa: 6 years with language skills, I know people who have done it, so it︋ works. I would tend to say more or less guaranteed if you know what you︌ are doing.
Could maybe even work without Dubai setup for OP, as EU is Ukraine-friendly︍ these days. Definitely worth to check with lawyers there.
Finally Poland could work as mentioned︎ above for this very specific case (UA citizenship). Many many Ukrainians there, safe and affordable️ country, AND track record to naturalise Ukrainians (more than half of all naturalisations). Similar language, so Ukrainians are probably the only people who can easily naturalise in Poland due to the difficult language requirement. Slow yes. But doable. I would say 4-5 years to passport here but would have to be checked too.
Then move to Portugal (no crypto tax for long term holdings, or no crypto tax at all), Germany (no crypto tax after holding 1 year).
Cash out legally.
In my opinion the EU citizenship should be the ultimate goal here. Only that gives︀ you the flexibility to try out multiple countries in the EU. And why overpay if︁ you don't have to.
Potential paths to get EU citizenship after Dubai setup:
Malta
Malta Golden Visa: 15 years to citizenship so forget about it. Who can live in Malta︂ this long.
or - Buy Malta passport outright, expensive, potentially very heavy due diligence. Not︃ worth the money IMO. But could be an option after Dubai setup.
Cyprus
Cyprus Golden︄ Visa: Maybe 8 years but you need Greek language skills (difficult to learn) and depends︅ on a final interview where anything can happen. Some bureaucrat can just reject you. Process︆ generally not very transparent and probably an additional 3 years waiting time after the 8︇ years. Also I think you have to be present in Cyprus 365 days in the︈ last year or something weird like that.
So process is 11 years, doesn't seem very︉ reliable, but would be happy to hear about anyone who was naturalised this way.
I am not saying it's not possible, but its long and not guaranteed even.
Portugal Golden︊ Visa: 6 years with language skills, I know people who have done it, so it︋ works. I would tend to say more or less guaranteed if you know what you︌ are doing.
Could maybe even work without Dubai setup for OP, as EU is Ukraine-friendly︍ these days. Definitely worth to check with lawyers there.
Finally Poland could work as mentioned︎ above for this very specific case (UA citizenship). Many many Ukrainians there, safe and affordable️ country, AND track record to naturalise Ukrainians (more than half of all naturalisations). Similar language, so Ukrainians are probably the only people who can easily naturalise in Poland due to the difficult language requirement. Slow yes. But doable. I would say 4-5 years to passport here but would have to be checked too.
Then move to Portugal (no crypto tax for long term holdings, or no crypto tax at all), Germany (no crypto tax after holding 1 year).
Cash out legally.
Hi, the information about Cyprus citizenship is actually wrong.︁ You need to show that you have lived in Cyprus for a period of 5︂ years within a period of 7 years. Indeed the last year prior to the application︃ you must show that you've lived in Cyprus (this of course does not stop you︄ from going away for sometime it doesn't have to be strictly 365 days as you︅ suggest).
There is no language requirement. Of course knowing Greek would be an advantage but︆ there is no such requirement.
The procedure is very transparent, it's a fixed set of︇ questions about Cyprus.
There is no language requirement. Of course knowing Greek would be an advantage but︆ there is no such requirement.
The procedure is very transparent, it's a fixed set of︇ questions about Cyprus.
Hi CyprusLaw, will that change / clarifiy the handling of personal captial gains tax for crypto too? I think this is important for crypto traders and holders when considering moving to cyprus. It's very unclear if you would pay 20% capital gains tax as a non-dom, on multi-year longterm crypto holdings. I know currently it's recommended︀ to use a Ltd to liquidate longterm holdings but the access to banking is still︁ bad. 😕
There is no CGT on cryptos in Cyprus. With respect to the taxation of cryptocurrencies these will fall under the same tax principles as with any other business activities and a tax rate of 12.5% will apply.
This in fact the case as︀ no legal definition was attributed to cryptocurrencies in Cyprus Tax legislation. Thus no clarification exists︁ whether cryptocurrencies are securities (“titles”), currency or a digital asset. The accounting practice (IFRS) considers︂ cryptocurrencies as either inventory or intangible assets, and as the the tax practice usually follows︃ the accounting practice, inventories/intangible assets are part of the normal business operations which are taxed︄ at 12.5%.
We do not expect the above to change prior to the enactment of︅ the MiCA EU Regulation, so 2024 at the earliest.
This in fact the case as︀ no legal definition was attributed to cryptocurrencies in Cyprus Tax legislation. Thus no clarification exists︁ whether cryptocurrencies are securities (“titles”), currency or a digital asset. The accounting practice (IFRS) considers︂ cryptocurrencies as either inventory or intangible assets, and as the the tax practice usually follows︃ the accounting practice, inventories/intangible assets are part of the normal business operations which are taxed︄ at 12.5%.
We do not expect the above to change prior to the enactment of︅ the MiCA EU Regulation, so 2024 at the earliest.
Yes I can confirm that Poland especially Warsaw is filled with Ukrainians not only cheap labour but high end too and language is easy to learn︀ for them
I am not very experienced with international banking but polish passport should look︁ more trustworthy to banks or businesseses than maltese/cypriot/UAE
I have checked and there are 2︂ options to obtain polish citizenship
1. (around 60% of naturalizations) Provincial office - 12 years︃ and B1 polish language knowledge
2. (around 40 % of naturalizations) President's office - There︄ are no specific requirements (I've read that B1 polish is highy adviced). If you get︅ rejected you can apply again
Ukrainians amount to ~55 % of all naturalizations
Option 2.︆ flexibility might be advantageous if you can afford good lawyer, be able to attach reference︇ letters from various organizations showing that you support polish culture etc, having some even distant︈ polish ancestors would be awasome. Lack of transparency is big problem, it would not be︉ fun to put in a lot of effort and end up getting rejected
OP could︊ contact law firms specialized in dealing with immigrants / expats, explain his situation and see︋ if they can offer any solutions that worked in the past
I found this for︌ example
https://expatpoland.pl/en/
If they can't offer anything specific Poland is not the best choice considering︍ high taxes
"not more than 5"
Where did you find this information? Maybe I am missing something
I am not very experienced with international banking but polish passport should look︁ more trustworthy to banks or businesseses than maltese/cypriot/UAE
I have checked and there are 2︂ options to obtain polish citizenship
1. (around 60% of naturalizations) Provincial office - 12 years︃ and B1 polish language knowledge
2. (around 40 % of naturalizations) President's office - There︄ are no specific requirements (I've read that B1 polish is highy adviced). If you get︅ rejected you can apply again
Ukrainians amount to ~55 % of all naturalizations
Option 2.︆ flexibility might be advantageous if you can afford good lawyer, be able to attach reference︇ letters from various organizations showing that you support polish culture etc, having some even distant︈ polish ancestors would be awasome. Lack of transparency is big problem, it would not be︉ fun to put in a lot of effort and end up getting rejected
OP could︊ contact law firms specialized in dealing with immigrants / expats, explain his situation and see︋ if they can offer any solutions that worked in the past
I found this for︌ example
https://expatpoland.pl/en/
If they can't offer anything specific Poland is not the best choice considering︍ high taxes
"not more than 5"
Where did you find this information? Maybe I am missing something
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