Crypto-to-crypto transactions are not taxed in Poland & Germany!

[Nicholas Van Orton]

Maybe because they do NOT hold⁠ their scam, ejem, crypto "investments" for over a year? As, like in many other European⁤ jurisdictions (Spain, Portugal, for example), you must hold your investments/securities for 1+ years (some countries⁣ 3 and some 5), before they make sense from a taxation point of view.

 

[SoNewToAllShit]

So if I understand all this correctly, then the way to get crypto out tax‌ free is as follows:
I send my crypto into a new wallet, document the date‍ and time for it, make an invoice for the amount, it could be from a⁠ UK LTD which I let go bankrupt within 1 year again. Moves to Germany after⁤ 1 year, exchanges my cryptocoins for EURO - stays in Germany and uses my tax-free⁣ money to live for- or, I establish a company in the UK, Swiss or something,⁢ deposit the money there, and buy a house, car or boat. All tax free?

Can this be true ki#¤%

 

[clemens]

I read you @SoNewToAllShit - it's like a wet dream

 

[ih8socialism]

Question is, how to prove to the︁ goverment when you bought them and what they accept / understand. I assume you can︂ do some shady stuff with it lol
@Clemen you got some infos what the accept︃ as a proof that you purchase them later on? I still hold to some assets︄ from back to 2014 / 15 and I'm still stuck in Germany, atleast for this︅ year

Sadly the whole concept can not be applied to the whole "building a passive︆ income with DEX" thing.

 

[antani]

Thanks for sharing.⁠

Do you know if for people who relocate to Germany they require also documents to⁤ prove the transactions made with the initial cryptocurrency bought with fiat?
For example, if 5⁣ years ago I bought 1 BTC which I traded for other cryptos and now I⁢ have 1 BTC and 10 ETH, do they want to see the transactions I made︀ to get those 10 ETH?
Or is it just ok to show the receipt for︁ the purchase of the initial BTC and that I haven't traded it and the 10︂ ETH for at least 1 year?

In that case it would be great for tax︃ residents in Poland and Cyprus, where crypto-to-crypto trades don't generate tax events: they might trade︄ till the end of the next bull run, convert to stable coins, wait for one︅ year, move to Germany and cash out.

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

Interested, too. Asking for a friend, lol...

 

[clemens]

they just need that invoice or a document that proof they have bought the⁠ coins at this or that date and time.
That I don't know, the advisor just told︀ me the rules and that he would have to look into the wallet to prepare︁ all required documents. I needed to provide the proof of source of funds.

For me︂ it is not a problem.

 

[ImKing]

this thread belongs to mentor group gold - it should not be public!

It's a‌ loophole which will soon be saturated if it stays.

that is how it sounds to be.. talking to an advisor in taxes would be the⁠ true way.

 

[uplana]

source of funds will be required. Spoke with a German tax advisor today. Do⁠ you have the proof to the source of funds you are all good to go⁤ tax free!

 

[antani]

No problem with the proof of source of funds,⁠ but what if someone proves that she bought 10 ETH in 2017 and then shows⁤ up in 2023 in Germany with 100 ETH made through trading while living in another⁣ country?
I think that if someone has the list of all the transactions that increased⁢ the initial 10 ETH to 100 and kept these 100 ETH for at least one︀ year then in theory it should be fine.

I agree.

 

[uplana]

The difference is exactly trading crypto on a platform like kraken, if you do so,‌ you will not get it out tax free! Also the crypto's have to be hold‍ in a personal account, not a business account, otherwise it is taxed.

It's pretty simple,⁠ you buy or get in exchange of a service or gods 10 ETH in 2017⁤ - you leave them in the wallet, you relocate to Germany in 2022 , you⁣ exchange the crypto to fiat tax free.

Nothing more to say!

 

[calnana]

Ye but you'd have to live in germany... 🙂

Joking aside, combining this with cyprus⁢ would be great. Does this germany tax free thing apply to stablecoins? And are there︀ any caveats - I recall a post saying the 1 year turns to 10 years︁ if you hold the coins but use them for staking for example.

 

[antani]

I found the info below on Koinly
https://koinly.io/guides/crypto-tax-germany/

Trading with stablecoins​

A stablecoin -‍ like TrueUSD or EURB, is simply a class of cryptocurrency that offers price stability. That's⁠ because stablecoins are backed by a reserve asset, usually a stable fiat currency like USD⁤ or EUR. The sale of a stablecoin will attract tax if the value exceeds

There is no major advantage or disadvantage between trading with fiat and trading with a stablecoin⁣ when it comes taxes. Like with all disposals, stablecoins will attract tax only if they⁢ are traded in one year, and if the profit realised exceeds 600€

Staking, under 10 years︁​

In Germany coins can be sold tax free when they were held for over︂ 1 year. Except they were used to gain additional profit as it is the case︃ with staking. Then the period is extended to 10 years. Any profit made off staked︄ crypto should be declared in your annual tax return as 'other income'.

 

[uplana]

What is new in your last post? @antani

 

[antani]

Nothing new,‌ I just reported the answers to the @calnana 's questions found on Koinly.

On Koinly‍ there is a nice summary about taxation on crypto in Germany; here it is:

You'll pay Income Tax when you:
- get paid in crypto;
- mining and staking;
- sell, swap or spend crypto if you have held for less than one year and⁠ you gain more than 600 euro;
- stake crypto and sell within 10 years.

 

[volcanotnt]

@clemens Can I ask also please - could you PM the︃ name of the tax advisor please? also the original message would be fine.

 

[calnana]

So usdc would be treated the same as btc⁣ or eth.

But doesn’t this also mean that if you’ve ever staked (maybe even lent⁢ or used defi) your crypto/stabelcoins then it’s 10 years?

 

[Risehigh]

Working yes, but proof of funds isnt easy. And imagine they find a dex transaction‌ or similar you did no declare = fucked.
Not as easy as it seems 🙂

 

[antani]

It should be‍ checked with a tax advisor but I think it should be only on the coins⁠ you are staking: if you have 2000 UST and are staking 1000, then on those⁤ 1000 it's 10 years; on the other 1000 it's 1 year.

But then again, if⁣ for example by the end of 2022 someone stops staking and swapping and moves her⁢ coins to wallets, in 2023 does nothing, in the beginning of 2024 it will be︀ more than one year just holding the coins (this can be proved checking the wallet︁ on the blockchain explorer) and decides to move to Germany : will the German taxman︂ care about what you did with your coins in 2022 and before when you are︃ not a German ciitizen and never been a tax resident in Germany?
No problem with︄ the proof of source of funds for the purchase of the initial coins.

 

[calnana]

Yup makes sense, but as you said still check︄ with a professional on the ground.