Crypto Cashout in Germany

[gbool00]

Well,

let's say one don't have any source of income and is having a big crypto portfolio, acquired by trading, only clean crypto but with no legitimate source so in case of questioning by authorities, you can't declare it. Also the German citizenship is a must, because of their 0% crypto taxation:

https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...ophole-for-crypto-”“-ways-to-reduce-tax.37291/
Wouldn't it be a smart idea to just buy one or multiple NFTs, wait a year and sell it to yourself.
When selling to yourself, you determine its price and since it's an NFT nobody can deny its price. Also you need to pay a lot less tax due to the 1 year holding period.

In this case, there is no need to move abroad for cashing out crypto without a proven source.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Can the expression “crypto cash out” be banned? It should be replaced with “buy worthless fiat currency”

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[gbool00]

JohnnyDoe said:
Can the expression “crypto cash out” be banned? It should be replaced with “buy worthless fiat currency”
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Yes I usually agree with your response, but to invest in businesses and buy assets you first need to cash it out to FIAT to not run into troubles.

 

[wellington]

gbool00 said:
Well,

let's say one don't have any source of income and is having a big crypto portfolio, acquired by trading, only clean crypto but with no legitimate source so in case of questioning by authorities, you can't declare it. Also the German citizenship is a must, because of their 0% crypto taxation:

https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...ophole-for-crypto-”“-ways-to-reduce-tax.37291/
Wouldn't it be a smart idea to just buy one or multiple NFTs, wait a year and sell it to yourself.
When selling to yourself, you determine its price and since it's an NFT nobody can deny its price. Also you need to pay a lot less tax due to the 1 year holding period.

In this case, there is no need to move abroad for cashing out crypto without a proven source.
Click to expand...

No, because you can have the funds seized under a few areas

Unexplained wealth orders
AML violations

ETF

 

[YoungLansk]

There is still ways to buy assets ( properties ) with crypto in few countries if you are connected enough.
Your scenario is possible but you have to make sure that you fund the wallet properly where you going to buy that " NFT" , Meaning dont send crypto from your KYCd account to the wallet.
there will be some Tax implications, And if your Crypto is bit tainted and someone looks bit deep in to this there is always ways to find out on the blockchain. GL

 

[wellington]

Personally i think you guys over-react on here, the sheer amount of people freaking about liquidating their crypto makes me wonder if most of the posters are hiding stuff.

To be blunt, 1m-5m shouldn't have any issues, perhaps ask for paperwork, do via a OTC anyway for a better rate

Anything sub 1m just depends on the counterparty, but i fail to see any issues here, i mean seriously, likely more issues after you get the funds into the banking system and a few years later questions from the bank.

 

[YoungLansk]

wellington said:
Personally i think you guys over-react on here, the sheer amount of people freaking about liquidating their crypto makes me wonder if most of the posters are hiding stuff.

To be blunt, 1m-5m shouldn't have any issues, perhaps ask for paperwork, do via a OTC anyway for a better rate

Anything sub 1m just depends on the counterparty, but i fail to see any issues here, i mean seriously, likely more issues after you get the funds into the banking system and a few years later questions from the bank.
Click to expand...

I'm under the impression that OTC Desks would require source of funds too

 

[wellington]

YoungLansk said:
I'm under the impression that OTC Desks would require source of funds too
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They do. (well the legit ones).

acquired by trading, only clean crypto but with no legitimate source
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Define This, as 'no legitimate source' counters 'only clean crypto'.

 

[gbool00]

wellington said:
No, because you can have the funds seized under a few areas

Unexplained wealth orders
AML violations

ETF
Click to expand...

To my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong!) in Germany there is no kind of unexplained wealth orders, the tax department only can go after you when they can PROVE that you are laundering/ don't pay taxes. It's not the other way around like in Italy, in Germany the government must completely prove.

YoungLansk said:
There is still ways to buy assets ( properties ) with crypto in few countries if you are connected enough.
Your scenario is possible but you have to make sure that you fund the wallet properly where you going to buy that " NFT" , Meaning dont send crypto from your KYCd account to the wallet.
there will be some Tax implications, And if your Crypto is bit tainted and someone looks bit deep in to this there is always ways to find out on the blockchain. GL
Click to expand...

Yes the problem is with buying assets with crypto, how do I explain to local tax authorities I somehow get 1k€/month rental income from my property in Dubai? Or how this man suddenly became a business consultant in Cyprus even if I'm reporting and declaring the income, the whole story doesn't add up.

wellington said:
Personally i think you guys over-react on here, the sheer amount of people freaking about liquidating their crypto makes me wonder if most of the posters are hiding stuff.

To be blunt, 1m-5m shouldn't have any issues, perhaps ask for paperwork, do via a OTC anyway for a better rate

Anything sub 1m just depends on the counterparty, but i fail to see any issues here, i mean seriously, likely more issues after you get the funds into the banking system and a few years later questions from the bank.
Click to expand...

So it's more common for banks and their AML policy to report me/ look into me and not tax department(finanzamt)? This risk could one overcome by using OTC.

wellington said:
They do. (well the legit ones).



Define This, as 'no legitimate source' counters 'only clean crypto'.
Click to expand...

This meant that the crypto is clean and from reputable source like KYC Exchange and therefore it has 0% AML Score, the KYC is done by darks so there is no link to me anywhere. No source means that is does not have SOF.

 

[koohl]

gbool00 said:
To my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong!) in Germany there is no kind of unexplained wealth orders, the tax department only can go after you when they can PROVE that you are laundering/ don't pay taxes. It's not the other way around like in Italy, in Germany the government must completely prove.
Click to expand...

That's the same understanding I have. There are so many wealthy Germans doing great there paying no taxes and live better than the average Joe that is struggling to survive in 2024 in their own country.

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