1. What countries, not necessarily limited to the EU, would be good options
2. Other options other than cash?
Challenge> Need to pay $1M without leaving trace
- Thread starter Artemis Eleutheria
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2. Other options other than cash?
I never ever deal with USD as I will never want to give the US jurisdiction over me when I have no connection to US, plus rates are heading to zero in USD plus Trump's tweets..lol. I had looked at Sterling but with brexit forget GBP. I am old enough to remember the black Wednesday of 1992 and its about to repeat itself if UK makes wrong moves 🙁. Other non-negative yielding currencies are too exotic or volatile for my zero risk on cash policy.
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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.
for such requirements you must continously fish your banknotes, make withdraws from bank, keep the best bank notes, deposit the small denominations, again and again, patience is needed but if you have a lot of debit cards and a lot of different bank accounts, more than 10 lets say, it can be done...
It's true that you hold any balance in USD your ID is automatically reported to FED ?
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Expat in Hong Kong - There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt. - John Adams
I am not aware of such a thing. I however choose not to hold US assets or touch USD for ideological reasons firstly and secondly I have no use for USD in my life. USD is a pointless currency in my lifestyle.
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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.
Artemis.. I'm a little disappointed. I thought you're more advanced than that. Or maybe you're just being super lazy and trolling me. For the first question about pro-cash countries in the EU, search my posts of last 30 days, you'll come across a PDF.
Since you start with clean funds deposited in a bank of a high rep country, your opportunities are endless. If you don't want to trust anyone else with this, you have various options that require no special kind of middlemen. Each option comes with a different risk profile. With that said, at one point, if it's eventually a 8-figure relationship, a good middleman will become well-worthwhile as a risk reduction measure.
I'll give you two good (but not excellent) no-middleman-solutions today. I'm too lazy to write an essay about all solutions. Also, I'm not sharing my personal favorite solutions on a public forum. Fair enough?
Hypothetical scenario (since you gave no details): Sender in Germany -> Recipient in China
1.0 What's in the box?
1.1 Sender leases or purchases a safe deposit box in China.
1.2 Sender purchases gold bullion from a local seller, and a symbolic gift like Rolex or Patek, and puts it in the safe deposit box.
1.3 Sender delivers key or lock combination of the safe deposit box to the recipient.
1.4 Recipient empties the safe deposit box, sender ends the lease of safe deposit box (or keeps it for future business dev56""").
1.5 Recipient cashes in gold bullion for stocks/bonds/yuan or other securities he likes. Physical gold is highly liquid in China.
Caution: go for a low-end safe deposit box, but not a ridiculously unsafe box like an aluminium box at a bus stop. An ultra safe box that requires ID verification and documentation for every "door open" will not be the best fit for this purpose. Do one "door open" yourself to ensure the recipient won't encounter any withdrawal issues.
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2.0 Gambling Issues
2.1 Sender and recipient meet on a holiday, in a special pro-casino jurisdiction where AML laws, enforcement (or both) are lax.
2.2 Sender and recipient sit down in a VIP zone. After 2 drinks and one hour of 1-on-1 poker, the recipient cleans you.
2.3 You, the sender, leave casino in tears and the recipient leaves a happy dude with a hot bitch by his side.
Caution: Pick a popular high end casino. You want that 1M to blend in and look like nothing special.
For additional risk mitigation measures, it's best if you have a connection in the casino. Specifically ask for no cameras, no observers VIP table. Maybe for the right tip, the cameras will go off and player names will not appear anywhere. This stuff won't work in Europe due to harsh AML controls, but in south-east Asia, it's possible.
Lastly, why not consider other identity-concealing safety nets, such as the usual poker clothing - oversized sunglasses, wigs, cool hoodies. Pro tip: Maybe @Martin Everson can lend his kebabmaster hoodie.
Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
Since you start with clean funds deposited in a bank of a high rep country, your opportunities are endless. If you don't want to trust anyone else with this, you have various options that require no special kind of middlemen. Each option comes with a different risk profile. With that said, at one point, if it's eventually a 8-figure relationship, a good middleman will become well-worthwhile as a risk reduction measure.
I'll give you two good (but not excellent) no-middleman-solutions today. I'm too lazy to write an essay about all solutions. Also, I'm not sharing my personal favorite solutions on a public forum. Fair enough?
Hypothetical scenario (since you gave no details): Sender in Germany -> Recipient in China
1.0 What's in the box?
1.1 Sender leases or purchases a safe deposit box in China.
1.2 Sender purchases gold bullion from a local seller, and a symbolic gift like Rolex or Patek, and puts it in the safe deposit box.
1.3 Sender delivers key or lock combination of the safe deposit box to the recipient.
1.4 Recipient empties the safe deposit box, sender ends the lease of safe deposit box (or keeps it for future business dev56""").
1.5 Recipient cashes in gold bullion for stocks/bonds/yuan or other securities he likes. Physical gold is highly liquid in China.
Caution: go for a low-end safe deposit box, but not a ridiculously unsafe box like an aluminium box at a bus stop. An ultra safe box that requires ID verification and documentation for every "door open" will not be the best fit for this purpose. Do one "door open" yourself to ensure the recipient won't encounter any withdrawal issues.
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2.0 Gambling Issues
2.1 Sender and recipient meet on a holiday, in a special pro-casino jurisdiction where AML laws, enforcement (or both) are lax.
2.2 Sender and recipient sit down in a VIP zone. After 2 drinks and one hour of 1-on-1 poker, the recipient cleans you.
2.3 You, the sender, leave casino in tears and the recipient leaves a happy dude with a hot bitch by his side.
Caution: Pick a popular high end casino. You want that 1M to blend in and look like nothing special.
For additional risk mitigation measures, it's best if you have a connection in the casino. Specifically ask for no cameras, no observers VIP table. Maybe for the right tip, the cameras will go off and player names will not appear anywhere. This stuff won't work in Europe due to harsh AML controls, but in south-east Asia, it's possible.
Lastly, why not consider other identity-concealing safety nets, such as the usual poker clothing - oversized sunglasses, wigs, cool hoodies. Pro tip: Maybe @Martin Everson can lend his kebabmaster hoodie.
Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
+1
USA behaves pretty good for a super power. Looking at the overt heat Trump's been taking over his unethical conduct, it's definitely the place with most checks and balances among the 3. Just imagine if political opponents showed similar degrees of disrespect and hate towards Putin or Xi, even if for a reason.
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@Artemis Eleutheria If you're wondering how you'd pay for the gold bullion or casino chips to implement #1 or #2, get a few corporate debit cards from 2-3 different domestic banks. Since you said the funds are clean, I assume the corporate tax has been paid - therefore, for any domestic or foreign AML checks, show the corporate income tax return of 2018.
If there's no further negative tax consequence on personal or corporate level (idk where you live), consider taking a profit out of the company so that you can buy the bullion (or chips) with an account in your name. Ruining the accounting records of a legitimate income-generating business with questionable purchases abroad is probably not worth it, even if you can get through the AML checks with careful planning.
Which of the 2 options is better? It depends - the latter generates a source of funds document (casino winnings) for the recipient whereas the former won't. If the recipient is sophisticated and connected, he can cash in the gold without any source of funds documents, if not, he will encounter difficulties. The first option makes it virtually impossible for someone to connect you with the recipient whereas casino game logs, or camera recordings may lay a sufficient piece of evidence that can be later used to connect you and the recipient.
Both good options, but slightly different in their risk profile.
Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
I am not trolling you. Just leveraged on your input in order to see if anyone would come up with cash delivery locations outside EU ... and alternatives to cash. It was not aimed intentionally at you.
It might be perceived as lazy, but I seem to get better responses when I do not presume that I know more than anyone else ... it is better to be Socrates.
Right now the default solution is as described by TowelHead ... cash in CH. There are minor accounting issues, plus transportation issues for recipient (if they do not want funds to stay in CH).
Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
How dare you insult my Royalness ja334¤¤#.
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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.
I guess so until belt and road is complete.
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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.
Artemis Eleutheria said:
Fresh meat for the chop chop square. Also accept my apologies for calling it kebabmaster hoodie previously, although what I really meant is that it looks like a beautiful piece of clothing for the makers of quality food. Like the black belt in karate. I'm already regretting what I said.
Like Macau? How you can bring the cash there ?
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Expat in Hong Kong - There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt. - John Adams
In a coffin with a dead body on top.
No seriously, there is nothing illegal about transporting cash if you declare it.
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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.
Sure, but what if somebody wants to bring it to do tax evasion?
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Expat in Hong Kong - There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt. - John Adams
I didn't think the OP's question was about tax evasion. If it is then the funds are not legit at all as tax evasion is a crime in most countries 😕.
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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.
Artemi, the solution provided in CH is the more safest one at the moment, due to its capability of big amount on paper money.
PS: Greek here 🙂
There is no tax evasion involved on the part of the payor ... what there may or may not be on part of the recipient is none of my concern.
I do not believe there is an obligation imposed upon payor to ensure that recipient pays taxes (except that one is forced to prey upon employees on behalf of the taxman in many countries around the world, but event this tends to be limited to intra-jurisdiction transactions).
Main reasons for wanting untraceability are privacy and security concerns in as far as I understand it.
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