Cashing Out Crypto Gains in Dubai

[JohnLocke]

Gamblord said:
Not sure why you would want to travel around to all those countries. Why not go back and forth between the UK and Dubai twice each year?
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could possibly be the best solution.

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Disclaimer: Nothing I say should be taken as tax, legal or financial advice. Anything I say is for general informational purposes only. Always seek independent professional advice.​

 

[Gamblord]

Jimbo5 said:
Hi,
I am hoping someone could tell me if it is worth cashing out My Crypto Gains in Dubai and bypass Tax on Capital Gains in the UK.
I am working on the hypothesis that my Crypto Gains could be in excess of 5 Million UK pounds by the end of this year.
I currently have a holiday home in Dubai and love going there for holidays and could get a resident's visa if I wanted to through owning property in Dubai. I have heard that I can become a tax resident of Dubai if I live there for over 180 days of the year. I could probably do this for a year or two but wouldn't like to do this for 5 years and would like to come back to the UK after cashing out.
I know there is a HMRC law that states that any gains that I make outside of foreign employment would be subject to UK tax when coming back to the UK if within 5 years, does that mean I would be subject to cap gains tax if the money hits my UK bank account when I return within 5 years ?
If I set up a freezone company or an Ofshore company in Dubai could I take the realised capital gains as a form of employment income similar to bitcoin trading gains and therefore not have to pay the capital gains tax when returning to the UK?
My end goal is to puchase property with my cashed out funds in the UK so I need to eventually bring the funds back so leaving the money abroad in an offshore account is not an option for me.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Jim
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I'm not from UK but a lot of countries have exit taxes so that might be an issue. I'd strongly recommend you pay a professional hundreds of dollars for this advice instead of listening to a random person here. I could recommend one person that I know can probably help but I think advertising isn't allowed on this forum so maybe ask Admin? I found a few people on youtube myself. I think if you become a member here and pay a few hundred the experts will help but I have no idea what their knowledge is like. At least with youtube I can get a better feel.

I think the 181 days and tax certs are almost meaningless. From what I hear, if the UK tax office deems you suspicious they can come after you and hand waiving your UAE tax certification in their face won't even slow them down, which makes me question why bother getting it except some form of false assurance. Even with this freezone set up you can probably trigger the tax authorities in the UK in different ways and there's always the risk that the banking system or rules in UAE change over night. Just my thoughts, not financial advice.

 

[khinkali]

Exit taxes? Not exactly but gains on assets acquired in the UK before leaving and disposed of abroad are taxed if the period of non-residence is under five tax years. Also UK residential property can have some implications for foreign residents.

Tax residence elsewhere can help in establishing non residence status in some European countries (e.g. Cyprus 60 vs 183 days) but the UK has a Statutory Residence Test. Several UK accountants have made flowcharts like this.

 

[JimBeam]

Gamblord said:
I think the 181 days and tax certs are almost meaningless. From what I hear, if the UK tax office deems you suspicious they can come after you and hand waiving your UAE tax certification in their face won't even slow them down, which makes me question why bother getting it except some form of false assurance. Even with this freezone set up you can probably trigger the tax authorities in the UK in different ways and there's always the risk that the banking system or rules in UAE change over night. Just my thoughts, not financial advice.
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I think the same..

UAE tax certificate won't stop UK taxman of busting your balls. So I would prepare a damn good alibi... Move to Dubai, form a company in reputable free zone (not the cheapest one), pay yourself a salary, rent a decent flat (not crappy cheap one), pay utility bills, buy a car and stay there more than 183 days/year (not like 184 days but 240+ days)...

Also if you own real estate in UK - rent it or sell it... if you own a car - sell it... cancel everything you can from cell phone number to gym membership... Even update country at your Facebook account to UAE...

Cash out slowly so it looks like legit business growing and developing...
Have accounting for the company and do audits...

This way you will have a lot of documents to back up your story (you moved to UAE, stared a business there and it has grown making you a rich guy... and you're living a Dubai dream in sunny Dubai with no plans to return to rainy UK)...

Also, don't count money you paid for this than the money you saved and you'll see how all these things are cheap...

 

[troubled soul]

JimBeam said:
I think the same..

UAE tax certificate won't stop UK taxman of busting your balls. So I would prepare a damn good alibi... Move to Dubai, form a company in reputable free zone (not the cheapest one), pay yourself a salary, rent a decent flat (not crappy cheap one), pay utility bills, buy a car and stay there more than 183 days/year (not like 184 days but 240+ days)...

Also if you own real estate in UK - rent it or sell it... if you own a car - sell it... cancel everything you can from cell phone number to gym membership... Even update country at your Facebook account to UAE...

Cash out slowly so it looks like legit business growing and developing...
Have accounting for the company and do audits...

This way you will have a lot of documents to back up your story (you moved to UAE, stared a business there and it has grown making you a rich guy... and you're living a Dubai dream in sunny Dubai with no plans to return to rainy UK)...

Also, don't count money you paid for this than the money you saved and you'll see how all these things are cheap...
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Golden Word, It is better to genuinely living in Dubai and claiming your Tax free resident status. Rather doing some sort of drama. And What is the problem in Living in Dubai? I do not Understand why? It has World Class Life style.


Keep in Mind that , In Dubai Everything is Digital. If authority come after you it takes seconds to find out how many day you spend in Dubai ?

 

[blizz]

JimBeam said:
Also if you own real estate in UK - rent it or sell it... if you own a car - sell it... cancel everything you can from cell phone number to gym membership... Even update country at your Facebook account to UAE...
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That's the best advice I seen for long time. Relocation is the new word when it comes to tax freedom.

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[i888]

In Dubai can I buy gold, silver, diamonds directly w crypto w/o a passport? Silly question.

 

[Fred]

i888 said:
In Dubai can I buy gold, silver, diamonds directly w crypto w/o a passport? Silly question.
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Usually you have to make Cash OTC and buy Commodities in cash - that's possible.

For sure you have higher cash purchase limits expecially for Gold in UAE then everywhere else in the World.

You can't even really find something about it however an institutional seller with walk in shop will have for sure to ask for ID starting from certain amount.

The P2P no matter if Crypto or Gold is quite big in the UAE and there are many trusted sellers however you should follow only approved recommendations if you deal with P2P without KYC.

At least for Cash OTC we never noticed any story about counterfeit cash.

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[Rick Ross 305]

DXB treats expats like they were ATMs, you'll be milked by 1/ the freezones for your license/ docs/ renewals/ etc 2/ by the government visas/ id's/ immigration card/ etc 3/ by the banks (if u open) crazy account mantainance fees/ high balances/ products push/ etc. Get ready.

 

[JackAlabama]

Rick Ross 305 said:
DXB treats expats like they were ATMs, you'll be milked by 1/ the freezones for your license/ docs/ renewals/ etc 2/ by the government visas/ id's/ immigration card/ etc 3/ by the banks (if u open) crazy account mantainance fees/ high balances/ products push/ etc. Get ready.
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This is not unique to DXB.

 

[JimBeam]

Rick Ross 305 said:
DXB treats expats like they were ATMs, you'll be milked by 1/ the freezones for your license/ docs/ renewals/ etc 2/ by the government visas/ id's/ immigration card/ etc 3/ by the banks (if u open) crazy account mantainance fees/ high balances/ products push/ etc. Get ready.
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1. Freezones - yes seem a bit pricey - but hey it's 0% tax so if you've got volume it's nothing
2. Visas/cards - yes, buy you'll pay same or more in other countries and get far worse service. Drivers license renewal in Dubai is finished in 3 minutes on atm like machine. Again if the above is fine it's not a problem at all.
3. Banks are basically zero maintenance fees (both personal and business). For personal I have to hold 3k AED on my account not to pay the maintenance (that's about $800). That's nothing! The worst are currency exchange fees for currencies other than USD (but you could avoid this opening an account with an money exchange if you like). Banking costs are way cheaper that I had on Cyprus for example.

 

[rowena]

Rick Ross 305 said:
DXB treats expats like they were ATMs, you'll be milked by 1/ the freezones for your license/ docs/ renewals/ etc 2/ by the government visas/ id's/ immigration card/ etc 3/ by the banks (if u open) crazy account mantainance fees/ high balances/ products push/ etc. Get ready.
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Or you can incorporate a company in another country but the government will milk you 20-30% taxes on your profit.

 

[Rick Ross 305]

It's all mathematics, the taxes you don't pay there, they easily collect the equivalent or more with their sea of fees. And if not, the cost of life will eat and beat the difference, outrageous expensive.

 

[JimBeam]

Rick Ross 305 said:
It's all mathematics, the taxes you don't pay there, they easily collect the equivalent or more with their sea of fees. And if not, the cost of life will eat and beat the difference, outrageous expensive.
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It all comes down to two things:

1. How much do you make: if you make less than at least $250 - 300k/year than I guess Dubai is not for you as it will eat up all the tax savings (especially if you live there most of the time)
2. Where do you come from: if you come from Switzerland - you'll find prices in Dubai cheap. If you come from 3rd world country - you'll find it "outrageously expensive"

 

[Rick Ross 305]

You must have not been in Dubai lately, it has become Geneva-type expensive

 

[JimBeam]

Or you haven't been to Geneeva lately 🙂
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livi...=Switzerland&city2=Geneva&displayCurrency=EUR
I agree the prices rose recently a lot but that's not just the case in UAE.

I left Dubai in May and will return in September.
In Dubai you can buy a new property for €2k/m2 and that's totally not possible in Switzerland.
You can also rent 1BR for 1k EUR/month and that's also quite difficult in Switzerland (maybe in the country side same as if you would live in Sharjah or Ajman).

If you come from EU(rope) than it's being very expensive as the EUR has dropped to dollar significantly and that's what makes the prices seem even higher.
They are high, but weak EUR makes them even higher (additional 10% just this year).

For the people that calculate back to USD the things are a bit less bad.

 

[JackAlabama]

Rick Ross 305 said:
You must have not been in Dubai lately, it has become Geneva-type expensive
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No, it is by far not Geneva in pricewise, and this by a big factor.
In Geneva, all lower price options are just not available whereas in Dubai you can have low price or medium pricing.

 

[Rick Ross 305]

JackAlabama said:
No, it is by far not Geneva in pricewise, and this by a big factor.
In Geneva, all lower price options are just not available whereas in Dubai you can have low price or medium pricing.
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Not entirely true, because in DXB there is a lot of poor people, large Asian working class population, which is not he case of Geneva, but peer-to-peer lifestyle is equivalent or even more than Switzerland, residences, restaurants, cars, all lifestyle and entertainment is Swiss standard or sometimes far more expensive.
But if you are talking about living like the Asian/ African workers in the city ok will agree with you... but then what is the point? of setting up an offshore structure/ residence etc in the city? That's not where or how you would be living.