Cash withdrawal on crypto in the UK

[Martin Everson]

pma995 said:
I have been investing for the past 2 years but I would just take a portion of my wages every month and put these funds into crypto but because I have been doing it for a while it has added up. I have not cashed out yet though.
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There is very little you can do to prevent triggering a capital gains tax event on disposal [cash out, change of ownership etc]. Best to just pay the 24% CGT tax and move on and never have to look over your shoulder. All actions to mitigate any future CGT owed should have been done before gains arose. Any action you take now could lead to tax evasion charges [if caught] at the very least and even worse money laundering if you try and structure something with the purpose of avoiding CGT. UK has extensive anti tax avoidence legislation [GAAR etc] and UK is cash strapped.

@wellington explained it well.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[CyprusLawyer101]

@wellington
@Martin Everson
@pma995
As the replies on this matter are following my suggestion to OP that I can advice him on how to structure his ongoing affairs in ways to minimize taxes, I feel the urge to reply to the follow up comments. Although what is being said by Wellington and Martin is obviously valid, I believe that we are skipping the right of every individual to freely arrange his business dealings in such a manner to minimize taxes. This principle has been upheld by courts on numerous occasions, obviously with the caveat of transactions maintaining an economic/commercial rationale; something which is basically the principle upon which all anti-avoidance rules follow suit.
In this case, if my understanding is correct, OP has not disposed of its assets, therefore any tax implication has not yet materialized. At this particular point, it is the very right of the individual when considering the future of his finances to also consider options to structure them which can have a tax optimized result. Obviously he should always proceed to do that with openness and in accordance to the applicable laws and tax rules. Where the application of a particular tax rule falls within a grey area or where a different provision ( usually an anti-avoidance provision ) renders the application of a particular rule as "questionable", he should be able to comprehend the applicable risks and what they may entail in terms of "if things go sour" and the remoteness or not of that possibility. Mechanisms such as an advance tax ruling or a tax opinion can clear certain ground if it is deemed reasonable to proceed with one. In any event a negative outcome should never be a killer, i.e. landing him in jail, but in a worst worst case scenario should result in a civil procedure. Therefore a decision to go ahead with a particular arrangement should upheld a strong feeling of certainty to the individual up to the point where it should also be including a ready-ness of the individual to defend his position in front of the tax man or even in Court. Obviously the amount of taxes one may be saving from a particular arrangement is an additional consideration that should be included in his risk assessment. Once the mentioned elements are there, then the individual is considered well informed to make a decision to go ahead with a particular route that could result into tax savings.

If OP, is still interested to chat, I would be happy to DM.

 

[pma995]

CyprusLawyer101 said:
@wellington
@Martin Everson
@pma995
As the replies on this matter are following my suggestion to OP that I can advice him on how to structure his ongoing affairs in ways to minimize taxes, I feel the urge to reply to the follow up comments. Although what is being said by Wellington and Martin is obviously valid, I believe that we are skipping the right of every individual to freely arrange his business dealings in such a manner to minimize taxes. This principle has been upheld by courts on numerous occasions, obviously with the caveat of transactions maintaining an economic/commercial rationale; something which is basically the principle upon which all anti-avoidance rules follow suit.
In this case, if my understanding is correct, OP has not disposed of its assets, therefore any tax implication has not yet materialized. At this particular point, it is the very right of the individual when considering the future of his finances to also consider options to structure them which can have a tax optimized result. Obviously he should always proceed to do that with openness and in accordance to the applicable laws and tax rules. Where the application of a particular tax rule falls within a grey area or where a different provision ( usually an anti-avoidance provision ) renders the application of a particular rule as "questionable", he should be able to comprehend the applicable risks and what they may entail in terms of "if things go sour" and the remoteness or not of that possibility. Mechanisms such as an advance tax ruling or a tax opinion can clear certain ground if it is deemed reasonable to proceed with one. In any event a negative outcome should never be a killer, i.e. landing him in jail, but in a worst worst case scenario should result in a civil procedure. Therefore a decision to go ahead with a particular arrangement should upheld a strong feeling of certainty to the individual up to the point where it should also be including a ready-ness of the individual to defend his position in front of the tax man or even in Court. Obviously the amount of taxes one may be saving from a particular arrangement is an additional consideration that should be included in his risk assessment. Once the mentioned elements are there, then the individual is considered well informed to make a decision to go ahead with a particular route that could result into tax savings.

If OP, is still interested to chat, I would be happy to DM.
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OK yes would need more advice from you and want to discuss this further via DM

 

[JohnnyDoe]

CyprusLawyer101 said:
@wellington
@Martin Everson
@pma995
As the replies on this matter are following my suggestion to OP that I can advice him on how to structure his ongoing affairs in ways to minimize taxes, I feel the urge to reply to the follow up comments. Although what is being said by Wellington and Martin is obviously valid, I believe that we are skipping the right of every individual to freely arrange his business dealings in such a manner to minimize taxes. This principle has been upheld by courts on numerous occasions, obviously with the caveat of transactions maintaining an economic/commercial rationale; something which is basically the principle upon which all anti-avoidance rules follow suit.
In this case, if my understanding is correct, OP has not disposed of its assets, therefore any tax implication has not yet materialized. At this particular point, it is the very right of the individual when considering the future of his finances to also consider options to structure them which can have a tax optimized result. Obviously he should always proceed to do that with openness and in accordance to the applicable laws and tax rules. Where the application of a particular tax rule falls within a grey area or where a different provision ( usually an anti-avoidance provision ) renders the application of a particular rule as "questionable", he should be able to comprehend the applicable risks and what they may entail in terms of "if things go sour" and the remoteness or not of that possibility. Mechanisms such as an advance tax ruling or a tax opinion can clear certain ground if it is deemed reasonable to proceed with one. In any event a negative outcome should never be a killer, i.e. landing him in jail, but in a worst worst case scenario should result in a civil procedure. Therefore a decision to go ahead with a particular arrangement should upheld a strong feeling of certainty to the individual up to the point where it should also be including a ready-ness of the individual to defend his position in front of the tax man or even in Court. Obviously the amount of taxes one may be saving from a particular arrangement is an additional consideration that should be included in his risk assessment. Once the mentioned elements are there, then the individual is considered well informed to make a decision to go ahead with a particular route that could result into tax savings.

If OP, is still interested to chat, I would be happy to DM.
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Nice words, but see what is going on in the West with more fundamental rights:
- right to freedom
- right to free speech
- right to self determination
- right to property
- right to privacy
Etc.
The “right to minimize taxes” collides with the obligation of every citizen to transfer his profits to the silent partner, the mafia state.
One might be lucky and find a sympathetic judge, but chances are thin. And lawyers are expensive.
You can't win this game by following the rules (dynamically) set by your opponent.

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@JohnnyDoe ”“ Your #1 Source for Guidance in Different Offshore Fields​

 

[wellington]

JohnnyDoe said:
Nice words, but see what is going on in the West with more fundamental rights:
- right to freedom
- right to free speech
- right to self determination
- right to property
- right to privacy
Etc.
The “right to minimize taxes” collides with the obligation of every citizen to transfer his profits to the silent partner, the mafia state.
One might be lucky and find a sympathetic judge, but chances are thin. And lawyers are expensive.
You can't win this game by following the rules (dynamically) set by your opponent.
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In court, you will rarely find support amongst the jury as they get fucked by taxes also, and have to sit through a court case whilst not getting paid.

As for the judge, there's rarely support there either, because you are burdening them with a court case of greed opposed to serious cases which are in backlog.

No, if you are smart, intelligent, you leave until you have something worthwhile cashing out, i.e you build wealth/opportunity out of the West.

 

[CyprusLawyer101]

JohnnyDoe said:
Nice words, but see what is going on in the West with more fundamental rights:
- right to freedom
- right to free speech
- right to self determination
- right to property
- right to privacy
Etc.
The “right to minimize taxes” collides with the obligation of every citizen to transfer his profits to the silent partner, the mafia state.
One might be lucky and find a sympathetic judge, but chances are thin. And lawyers are expensive.
You can't win this game by following the rules (dynamically) set by your opponent.
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well its not only words really. its a methodology of approaching tax planning and obviously its aim its to stay as far away as possible from an adverse result - ending up in court, however there should always be a good case in place in case of an adverse outcome.

 

[cherry]

If you want to go a bit grey with this, buy gold coins of the realm with your crypto. Coins of the realm would be gold Sovereigns and gold Britannias. Coins of the realm are Capital Gains Tax free, so you can sell these coins without paying CGT. There are legal ways you can buy them without KYC, as well as sell them on. When selling back to a dealer, you are asked for ID but not the record of how you bought it. If selling privately on the secondary market, no ID needed. Selling in small amounts also keeps you more under the radar.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

cherry said:
When selling back to a dealer, you are asked for ID but not the record of how you bought it.
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Take care of choosing vintage coinages. Some that your uncle/grandpa could have bought 😉

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[pma995]

cherry said:
If you want to go a bit grey with this, buy gold coins of the realm with your crypto. Coins of the realm would be gold Sovereigns and gold Britannias. Coins of the realm are Capital Gains Tax free, so you can sell these coins without paying CGT. There are legal ways you can buy them without KYC, as well as sell them on. When selling back to a dealer, you are asked for ID but not the record of how you bought it. If selling privately on the secondary market, no ID needed. Selling in small amounts also keeps you more under the radar.
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Hi, have you done this before? Would like to know more on how and steps on how to do this.

 

[daniels27]

pma995 said:
Hi, have you done this before? Would like to know more on how and steps on how to do this.
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Just cash you P2P and then buy around the corner. Definitely not legal either way.

 

[JackAlabama]

cherry said:
If you want to go a bit grey with this, buy gold coins of the realm with your crypto. Coins of the realm would be gold Sovereigns and gold Britannias. Coins of the realm are Capital Gains Tax free, so you can sell these coins without paying CGT. There are legal ways you can buy them without KYC, as well as sell them on. When selling back to a dealer, you are asked for ID but not the record of how you bought it. If selling privately on the secondary market, no ID needed. Selling in small amounts also keeps you more under the radar.
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trying to stay without kyc in gold is even worse than with crypto since you cant travel with meaningful amount of gold and are restricted to local market.
Its making the problem worse.

 

[cherry]

JackAlabama said:
trying to stay without kyc in gold is even worse than with crypto since you cant travel with meaningful amount of gold and are restricted to local market.
Its making the problem worse.
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He wants to cash out to fiat and not leave the UK. Travel is not an issue in his case. Although it's better to keep the gold and liquidate a coin here and there when you need fiat.

The limitation is how much crypto he has, which isn't mentioned in the OP. Dealers tend to have a £10k max per year without ID (each dealer, and not all of them). Private sellers have no limit but won't have £1 Million of gold to sell in one go.

Of course you could just sell the crypto P2P for fiat, but bank algos get triggered quickly if you receive money from a marked crypto vendor, while cash is risky P2P in large amounts.

pma995 said:
Hi, have you done this before? Would like to know more on how and steps on how to do this.
Click to expand...

No, I'm holding both my gold and my crypto. But there are reputable dealers who sell gold for crypto, and there are dealers buying gold for fiat. Obviously, I don't condone breaking the law, the law is there to keep us all safe and it must not be broken. Google is your friend.

 

[daniels27]

Honestly, I think if you are connected in the UK, you should be able to find people holding 10M+ in gold that want to off-ramp. Just check with those.

 

[polonieth]

pma995 said:
Imagine you invested say £50k into cryptocurrency in one year and you made profit of £20m. You would have to pay 24% CGT on £19,950,000 for that year which is £4,788,000. You are still left with £15.2m so even after tax your profit is insane and you can do a lot with that money so I would have no problem doing that.

Lets say you invested £50k and in one year I made profit of £3m which is basically with the cryptos I have I expect to have around that much soon and I will, I would have to pay £708k in tax leaving me with £2.3m of profit left. That is a massive chunk of money to pay in tax and will feel like an absolute robbery especially when you are an average person who has never seen that kind of money before so I am just trying to make you understand why I would ask something like this.
I am not implying tax evasion, I just want to see if there is a way of any relief or to pay less tax in a jurisdicition which will allow me to keep a large portion of profits.

Do you think getting mentor group membership will help with this?
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Expect to have?

You sound like someone who sacrificed for Pulsechain

It's either leave or stay and pay the capital gains tax to Rachel in accounts.

Or cash out when Chairman Starmer steps down with HIV and there is a snap election.

 

[pma995]

polonieth said:
Expect to have?

You sound like someone who sacrificed for Pulsechain

It's either leave or stay and pay the capital gains tax to Rachel in accounts.

Or cash out when Chairman Starmer steps down with HIV and there is a snap election.
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I expect to have a lot because I invested my money during the bear market all the way until now. What goes up must come down but what goes down will always go back up and we are at the start of a bull run the likes of which we have never seen before.

As other users have mentioned there are ways for me to complete this task it's not just 2 options that you mentioned.

I work in accounting and we have someone on our team called Rachel lol.

 

[daniels27]

pma995 said:
I work in accounting and we have someone on our team called Rachel lol.
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Until she reports you.

 

[cherry]

It was the sheep's obedience to authority that allowed HMRC to become so brazen.

 

[Alex Braun]

pma995 said:
I live in the UK and only have UK citizenship/tax residency in the UK so obvs will have to pay 24% CGT on any of the gains.

Is there a process for me cash out my crypto in a country where there is less or even no tax for me to pay and I keep all my profits but legally? Saying this, I don't really want to move anywhere abroad I want to stay in the UK.

I think there is a way to do this legally and there are millionaires/financially free people who can help me this so I thought I would ask here.
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did you ever consider crypto collateral loans?