Can you migrate to Kuwait and trade crypto with zero tax as a natural person?
- Thread starter flyingadventures662
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You can of course, but getting inside Kuwait its a lot harder than UAE unless you have cash to invest. You need a sponsor/someone to employ you for the most part to get the residency, there is also an investors Visa. Bahrain is an option (but expensive to get in with a "golden Visa")
And Qatar wouldn't be an option since they aren't crypto friendly. People usually go to UAE for a reason
And Qatar wouldn't be an option since they aren't crypto friendly. People usually go to UAE for a reason
Thanks for the info. Bahrain looks also super humid.
https://weatherspark.com/y/150203/Average-Weather-in-Bahrain-Year-Round#Sections-Humidity
https://weatherspark.com/y/150203/Average-Weather-in-Bahrain-Year-Round#Sections-Humidity
Are you looking for an optimum country to trade cryptos and pay 0 tax as a professional trader ? Just guessing since of your past 2 threads
Both 🙂
Seriously, yes, looking for a country with zero tax to trade crypto as a professional trader, but weather matters. I have some health issues that do not tolerate humidity at all so it's a deal breaker for me.
I know there are no so much such options though. Apart from Kuwait if Switzerland is confirmed it could be interesting to consider.
If not, I may spend some years traveling around and paying tax in my home country. Which through an offshore company is 5% on withdrawn dividend, money-wise absolutely acceptable.
Seriously, yes, looking for a country with zero tax to trade crypto as a professional trader, but weather matters. I have some health issues that do not tolerate humidity at all so it's a deal breaker for me.
I know there are no so much such options though. Apart from Kuwait if Switzerland is confirmed it could be interesting to consider.
If not, I may spend some years traveling around and paying tax in my home country. Which through an offshore company is 5% on withdrawn dividend, money-wise absolutely acceptable.
what about corporate tax ? You mean you live︀ in "A" country and have an offshore company in "B" where you only pay the︁ 5% tax on dividends ?
I think Switzerland is probably your best bet (If all︂ you do is trade). Not sure if Puerto Rico suits your situation but I do︃ believe they don't tax crypto gains. As a day to day trader a lot of︄ great options like Malta, Portugal, Germany go out the window and I dont imagine you︅ want to live in Bermuda or some remote island.
Edit: Forgot about Georgia, maybe that's︆ worth checking
I think Switzerland is probably your best bet (If all︂ you do is trade). Not sure if Puerto Rico suits your situation but I do︃ believe they don't tax crypto gains. As a day to day trader a lot of︄ great options like Malta, Portugal, Germany go out the window and I dont imagine you︅ want to live in Bermuda or some remote island.
Edit: Forgot about Georgia, maybe that's︆ worth checking
I've read that since bitcoin is not sourced anywhere specifically in Georgia is tax free but don't know if RS shares the same opinion.
If all he does is trading Swtizerland treats it as professional income so it is taxed.
Instead if it's a side hustle and trades are infrequent is tax exempt.
If all he does is trading Swtizerland treats it as professional income so it is taxed.
Instead if it's a side hustle and trades are infrequent is tax exempt.
Well if it's an offshore company you have zero corporate tax there + local︁ dividend. And in my country the dividend is 5%. But that's not true for most︂ EU countries. Not sure just about Estonia (and not sure if I want to live︃ there), but it seems in most places the dividend is at decent rate.
If I︄ jump on different countries for less than 6 months and keep my tax residency where︅ it is, I will keep the 5% which is fine. I would settle in another︆ country if I know that I can get low tax residency by living there and︇ if it is a nice place to live in.
No offence for Georgia, I have︈ never been there, so I might be wrong. But does not sound like a cool︉ country to live in. At the end of the day, as I said, in my︊ home country Bulgaria I will be paying 5% even if I live here but I︋ don't like it and I doubt it will be better in Georgia.
In Portugal and︌ Switzerland I am quite sure if you are a pro trader they will tax you︍ decently. I don't have info for Germany and Malta offering low taxes for local residents.︎
Money is not everything, I think I would accept even up to 10% if it's️ a nice country.
If I︄ jump on different countries for less than 6 months and keep my tax residency where︅ it is, I will keep the 5% which is fine. I would settle in another︆ country if I know that I can get low tax residency by living there and︇ if it is a nice place to live in.
No offence for Georgia, I have︈ never been there, so I might be wrong. But does not sound like a cool︉ country to live in. At the end of the day, as I said, in my︊ home country Bulgaria I will be paying 5% even if I live here but I︋ don't like it and I doubt it will be better in Georgia.
In Portugal and︌ Switzerland I am quite sure if you are a pro trader they will tax you︍ decently. I don't have info for Germany and Malta offering low taxes for local residents.︎
Money is not everything, I think I would accept even up to 10% if it's️ a nice country.
That view comes from a legally binding Public Decision from the Revenue service. There is no official English version of that document and Google Translate isn't particularly accurate in Georgian but it's good enough to get the gist of things. The decision does exempt gains from mining (which was the main purpose of the decision) and of course does not exempt being paid for goods or services in crypto.
Most people I have discussed this with (including Georgian tax auditors) believe that crypto trading at whatever frequency is exempt because the︀ reasoning includes concepts such as "not located in a specific location". However, there are always︁ ways to read the tax code differently and I think there is a small chance︂ that the RS will come up with another Public Decision to "clarify" that professional trading︃ is "other income" in the territory of Georgia and therefore not exempt.
This really comes︅ down to your personal taste and lifestyle. Western Europe, Caucuses, South East Asia, Middle East︆ each appeal to different folk.
Most people I have discussed this with (including Georgian tax auditors) believe that crypto trading at whatever frequency is exempt because the︀ reasoning includes concepts such as "not located in a specific location". However, there are always︁ ways to read the tax code differently and I think there is a small chance︂ that the RS will come up with another Public Decision to "clarify" that professional trading︃ is "other income" in the territory of Georgia and therefore not exempt.
This really comes︅ down to your personal taste and lifestyle. Western Europe, Caucuses, South East Asia, Middle East︆ each appeal to different folk.
Damn you live in Bulgaria and want to save taxes? There are people and firms encouraging people to move to Bulgaria to save taxes. You must be an extreme tax saving maximalist or earn millions to want to make the move.
I guess you are referring to my decision to move out of Bulgaria and not to the offshore company to save further here. Because if all it takes to save further 5% is to pay a couple if thousands per year, why not do it?
To avoid confusion, no, I am not moving out of Bulgaria for tax purposes but for personal purposes. The thing is when I move if I settle somewhere︀ I might have to pay much more.
Not sure how DTA works for natural persons,︁ but if I move to Portugal, for example, and buy an apartment there, but don't︂ have one in Bulgaria I guess I would still have to pay the Portuguese tax︃ wouldn't I?
So as I said I am fine even with some low tax if︄ it's a nice country, otherwise I might keep traveling around which is also cool.
BTW I wouldn't recommend Bulgaria as a place to move if you are making a lot︅ of money at least if you don't use offshore so your business is subject to︆ the local tax authorities. That's other topic and a long story but in general I︇ am not sure how safe it is. There's a new government now and the climate︈ is changing. But the prosecution is pure mafia affiliated with the ex-governement. Depends also on︉ business sector, etc... but it's a public secret they blackmail the profitable businesses. And over︊ 1M in profit you get listed in the "special watchlist". Things might be changing now︋ but it's early to tell.
You can Google Bulgaria ex prime minister Borissov arrested for︌ blackmailing a billionaire literally days ago. The information is public since 2020 but now the︍ new government at least had the police power to arrest him. But the prosecution stopped︎ the process and they had to release him.
To avoid confusion, no, I am not moving out of Bulgaria for tax purposes but for personal purposes. The thing is when I move if I settle somewhere︀ I might have to pay much more.
Not sure how DTA works for natural persons,︁ but if I move to Portugal, for example, and buy an apartment there, but don't︂ have one in Bulgaria I guess I would still have to pay the Portuguese tax︃ wouldn't I?
So as I said I am fine even with some low tax if︄ it's a nice country, otherwise I might keep traveling around which is also cool.
BTW I wouldn't recommend Bulgaria as a place to move if you are making a lot︅ of money at least if you don't use offshore so your business is subject to︆ the local tax authorities. That's other topic and a long story but in general I︇ am not sure how safe it is. There's a new government now and the climate︈ is changing. But the prosecution is pure mafia affiliated with the ex-governement. Depends also on︉ business sector, etc... but it's a public secret they blackmail the profitable businesses. And over︊ 1M in profit you get listed in the "special watchlist". Things might be changing now︋ but it's early to tell.
You can Google Bulgaria ex prime minister Borissov arrested for︌ blackmailing a billionaire literally days ago. The information is public since 2020 but now the︍ new government at least had the police power to arrest him. But the prosecution stopped︎ the process and they had to release him.
Just do that and keep it simple.
Sorry how much tax are you actually paying currently so I get an idea?
Don't worry my feelings on Bulgaria are well︀ documented on this site.
Sorry how much tax are you actually paying currently so I get an idea?
Don't worry my feelings on Bulgaria are well︀ documented on this site.
Sorry, didn't get it. Currently it is 10%, and now I am in the process of opening the offshore to cut it to 5% dividend. But it still makes a big difference also that with the offshore you pay it just on withdrawn dividend and not on all annual profit.
Are you sure, I saw here and there that above 3 transaction a year is 15%
Also Bulgaria has permanent establishment rules so that if you manage your offshore from Bulgaria, shouldn't it be taxed as a bg company ?
Thirdly is that even possible to get a bank account︀ for offshore crypto trading company while this is already almost impossible for individuals ?
Also Bulgaria has permanent establishment rules so that if you manage your offshore from Bulgaria, shouldn't it be taxed as a bg company ?
Thirdly is that even possible to get a bank account︀ for offshore crypto trading company while this is already almost impossible for individuals ?
This is the statement of the tax authorities. And is actually 15% tax + social, health, etc... (which is another 30-40% until some level, namely until you earn up to 3K BGN profit per month you pay these 30-40% on this up to 3K. But if you earn more than 3K BGN per month you will not pay more social contribution on what is above those 3K). And from 1st April this number will be 3,400 BGN.
As I said, the tax agency︀ has a statement claiming that over 3 transactions represent economical activity and are taxed as︁ such in the way I described above. Now if they are right or wrong is︂ another question. My lawyer has written a nice explanation why this statement contradicts the law︃ based on multiple arguments. He told me that generally people do not pay taxes on︄ crypto trading as an economic activity (please note that mining is an exception though!). His︅ strong conviction is that indeed this is not economic activity and he is ready to︆ defend this thesis in court. So while I can not advice you to do the︇ same I listen to my lawyer and do not represent it as economic activity and︈ thus will pay 10% on the annual profit. You will, however, hear from some accountants︉ that you should pay it as economic activity.
I researched this a lot and I︌ was assured by multiple specialists that if you have a remote nominee who manages on︍ paper the company from the other country they accept it as managed from there and︎ you pay just the dividend. Obviously you must not have an office here as well️ - which is the case when crypto trading. But you should keep silent that you are working from here, of course. If asked questions (quite unlikely IMO), I was advised to say: "For more details, please refer to my director". But please note that the local tax authorities in general know perfectly well how offshore companies are working and they tolerate it. Some big mafia guys related to the ex-government and even the current finance minister have offshore companies, so the laws regarding this are made in a "soft way" in comparison to other countries.
I would say it's absolutely impossible in Bulgaria. First, all︂ banks here are super anti-crypto and you can barely withdraw anything directly. Currently there is︃ one bank which sometimes allow some transfers and even that's not guaranteed. I am sure︄ they will not open a bank account even for a local crypto company. Let alone︅ for an offshore one.
As I said, the tax agency︀ has a statement claiming that over 3 transactions represent economical activity and are taxed as︁ such in the way I described above. Now if they are right or wrong is︂ another question. My lawyer has written a nice explanation why this statement contradicts the law︃ based on multiple arguments. He told me that generally people do not pay taxes on︄ crypto trading as an economic activity (please note that mining is an exception though!). His︅ strong conviction is that indeed this is not economic activity and he is ready to︆ defend this thesis in court. So while I can not advice you to do the︇ same I listen to my lawyer and do not represent it as economic activity and︈ thus will pay 10% on the annual profit. You will, however, hear from some accountants︉ that you should pay it as economic activity.
I researched this a lot and I︌ was assured by multiple specialists that if you have a remote nominee who manages on︍ paper the company from the other country they accept it as managed from there and︎ you pay just the dividend. Obviously you must not have an office here as well️ - which is the case when crypto trading. But you should keep silent that you are working from here, of course. If asked questions (quite unlikely IMO), I was advised to say: "For more details, please refer to my director". But please note that the local tax authorities in general know perfectly well how offshore companies are working and they tolerate it. Some big mafia guys related to the ex-government and even the current finance minister have offshore companies, so the laws regarding this are made in a "soft way" in comparison to other countries.
I would say it's absolutely impossible in Bulgaria. First, all︂ banks here are super anti-crypto and you can barely withdraw anything directly. Currently there is︃ one bank which sometimes allow some transfers and even that's not guaranteed. I am sure︄ they will not open a bank account even for a local crypto company. Let alone︅ for an offshore one.
Thank you, nice sum up, yes I heard more and less the same as you did from accountants and consultants.
Looking for the same as you, so very interested in your threads, with UAE seeming to be a not so reliable︀ solution now that 9%+VARA+grey list (these three could induce uncertainty on accessing all crypto platforms,︁ and on the risk of taxation etc, penalty, so I prefer to wait and see︂ before considering this as an option)
What I looked into so far was
-Andorra :︃ some day traders seemed to settle there and pay 0%, but that's only on Stocks︄ trading, does not apply to cfd or crypto or dividends payments, taxed at 10% so︅ no better than Bulgaria and way more complicated to get the residence
-Mauritius : some︆ traders seems also to pay 0%, but I think it shouldn't apply to professional day︇ traders who should be taxed there 10 or 15%, not better
-Malta : with the︈ remittance it's possible to reach 5%, but this will incur heavy yearly audits because you︉ would need to make the trading throught your onshore maltese, and the setup works if︊ you would be able to open bank account for your crypto trading Maltese onshore and︋ your holding offshore, to make the remittance setup work which some said it's difficult or︌ impossible
-Georgia : could be 0% on crypto trading, but not that clear and there︍ is some retroactive risk, but it's clearly not 0% on traditional markets trading but it's︎ way way worst than 10% so not a good option imo (stocks, cfd, futures, etc),️ the best for a trader is to have 0% on any sort, because you might one day or an other start to trade, even crypto on other platforms (for example trade crypto companies stocks)
it seems there is no perfect solution anymore for day traders in the aforementionned countries, if considering purely the tax optimisation aspect, or maybe I am missing something (I didn't consider Bahamas because flight connections to europe are too complicated and long).
Looking for the same as you, so very interested in your threads, with UAE seeming to be a not so reliable︀ solution now that 9%+VARA+grey list (these three could induce uncertainty on accessing all crypto platforms,︁ and on the risk of taxation etc, penalty, so I prefer to wait and see︂ before considering this as an option)
What I looked into so far was
-Andorra :︃ some day traders seemed to settle there and pay 0%, but that's only on Stocks︄ trading, does not apply to cfd or crypto or dividends payments, taxed at 10% so︅ no better than Bulgaria and way more complicated to get the residence
-Mauritius : some︆ traders seems also to pay 0%, but I think it shouldn't apply to professional day︇ traders who should be taxed there 10 or 15%, not better
-Malta : with the︈ remittance it's possible to reach 5%, but this will incur heavy yearly audits because you︉ would need to make the trading throught your onshore maltese, and the setup works if︊ you would be able to open bank account for your crypto trading Maltese onshore and︋ your holding offshore, to make the remittance setup work which some said it's difficult or︌ impossible
-Georgia : could be 0% on crypto trading, but not that clear and there︍ is some retroactive risk, but it's clearly not 0% on traditional markets trading but it's︎ way way worst than 10% so not a good option imo (stocks, cfd, futures, etc),️ the best for a trader is to have 0% on any sort, because you might one day or an other start to trade, even crypto on other platforms (for example trade crypto companies stocks)
it seems there is no perfect solution anymore for day traders in the aforementionned countries, if considering purely the tax optimisation aspect, or maybe I am missing something (I didn't consider Bahamas because flight connections to europe are too complicated and long).
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