business/bank (ownership hidden from public) for subscription product

[user9823671]

Hi, been a while since been on this forum and haven't kept up with latest‌ happenings in offshore / privacy issues, so thought I would create a thread rather than‍ wade through the 100s of other similar threads (sorry about that).

Am starting a new⁠ business that is legal, but does involve breaking website TOS.
I want to keep my⁤ name out of the public record (so no each public look up) but am not⁣ trying to hide from governments

I am a non resident EU citizen been living abroad⁢ (non-eu / non US) for 10 years where I have citizenship of a 3rd world︀ country (south american). So anything could be signed up with either valid documents.

Obviously would︁ like to pay as low as tax (if any) as possible, but am not interested︂ in illegally doing so (darks / not declaring / hoping I don't get found out)︃

The new business is going to be subscription based, so paypal would be useful (but︄ from what I can tell for privacy business that is now tricky / not possible).︅ Am open to any payment options that allow subscriptions. processors such as 2cho / paypal︆ / similar / highrisk cc processors.

Another thing, ideally would like to keep things out︇ of the US, as the US has shown a tendency in recent times to consider︈ website TOS legally binding with prosecutions under hacking laws, whereas other areas (EU) do not︉

 

[TurnedToRobot]

There are only a limited option if you speak tax free business operation. Either Cyprus‌ or Hong Kong, both can be setup to be tax neutral and you can setup‍ a bank account in Cyprus for the business or an EMI as you like and⁠ can be approved.

Don't forget to appoint nominees to the setup for max privacy.

 

[blizz]

Seychelles and Belize both hide your identity everywhere public. If you appoint nominees you get‌ the same in Cyprus and Hong Kong for instant!

Alternative is the very discussed Georgia‍ which I so far have no experience with!

 

[hungryit]

As mentioned here Seychelles, Belize and St. Kitts will hide your identity by default. Hong‌ Kong, Cyprus and similar places will require nominee director and shareholder to hide your identity.‍

 

[OffCap]

Generally, Seychelles, Belize, etc. are no longer great options because they pose lots of banking‌ problems. Even if you can get an account today you run the risk of it‍ getting flagged in the future so why would you want to deal with that?

Nominees are similarly causing more and more issues with banks so where possible it's nice not⁠ to have them involved.

You could look at Georgia, one of the company types there⁤ doesn't disclose the shareholders, which makes it more interesting and costs of having a real⁣ company there (adding one or two staff) is extremely low.

If you're looking at nominees⁢ then sure HK, Gibraltar, etc. are all options.

One question though is why worry about︀ your name being on the public records if you're in a SA country? It would︁ be extremely difficult to go after you.

 

[JohnLocke]

This is exactly what you risk with almost any offshore company.⁤ The world is shutting down for offshore corps and banking it requires a lot more⁣ today to keep your setups.

It's not different with Georgia, what works today there will⁢ not work tomorrow or in the near future, if someone believe governments to be stupid︀ then you make a big mistake.

 

[OffCap]

Very true, they are trying to make it⁣ as expensive to operate offshore as paying your taxes onshore so you'll just stick to⁢ onshore.

You need to anticipate these changes and build something that's sustainable so your energy︀ is focused on building your business not trying to maintain and rebuild a dying offshore︁ set up, which is why I highly advocate choosing strategic places to build substance these︂ days.

 

[user9823671]

From what I can tell, they are just not options. I⁤ would not be able to accept paypal payments, join up with a payment processor such⁣ as 2cho / paddle with a true seychelles / belize type company. Even going with⁢ a belize merchant bank is going to be difficult for subscription charges, as US /︀ EU banks will refuse the payment and is hassle after hassle like you say.

Because the product does allow users to break the TOS of some websites and︃ these websites have large legal departments. As you say, being in SA is not a︄ problem, but I do visit my EU home country, where it could be more problematic.︅

 

[TurnedToRobot]

What's your conclusion or intention in matters of setting up a company with payment processing?‌

 

[Spinat]

you are still resident of your home country? have you informed⁤ your home country that you are not living there any longer?

 

[user9823671]

Still looking into it. Had some things come up and‍ the project was delayed. Cyprus looked a promising option as did Curacao, although information is⁠ limited on that with what is required to setup a presence in the country

Yes, I am officially⁣ a non-resident citizen.

 

[Tax Cow]

A random 0 tax jurisdiction will not work. What is your country of residence? Then‌ we can check DTA's and CFC rules to see if any (legal) 0 or low‍ tax solutions even exist.

 

[netmillions]

What's the problem with Hong Kong under nominees? If your goal is asset protection, it‌ can also be owned by an offshore trust. There are strategies to setup a trust‍ in a way where the assets within are protected even if you or the corporation⁠ is sued.

 

[user9823671]

Thought I'd replied to this post already :-s

Resident of Ecuador, originally from UK. No CFC laws.

Currently, just run the⁠ business (software) from personal paypal account. Then transfer from paypal to uk personal account then⁤ transfer here. Been meaning to sort it out for years, just never get round to⁣ it.

 

[Tax Cow]

Ecuador does let⁤ you operate an offshore company but they want proof of tax paid overseas, otherwise they⁣ will apply their own rates.

Imho, the best for Ecuador residents in 2019 is Montserrat⁢ @ 1.75% corp tax rate (an election to get taxed must be made when incorporating).︀ Get nominees to hide your name from the public.

With classic offshore jurisdictions you can︁ operate at 0% tax but repatriating profits to Ecuador will be significantly more expensive. As︂ far as Ecuador rules go, if you paid even 1% tax overseas, you're off the︃ hook and no local taxes will apply. If you paid no tax, they will apply︄ their own rates which are quite nasty. In that regard, UAE, HK, BVI, Cayman Islands︅ etc. will not be as advantageous for Ecuadorians.

 

[user9823671]

Interesting.

Do offshore companies report to Ecuador? I wouldn't have thought Ecuador has much︂ clout worldwide.

Unless move it to UK first as non-resident, then︄ move to ecuador. As from what I understand, any foreign capital can be brought into︅ the country tax free. But I guess this falls into evasion / illegal territory but︆ with next to 0% chance of detection due to lack of agreements with UK, I︇ guess they don't know it is not from savings?

But for the sake of 1.75%︈ and peace of mind, it is a very small price to pay and worth looking︉ into. What is the banking situation like with a Montserrat company? Same issues as with︊ 0% tax havens? Or slightly better?

 

[Tax Cow]

Nope, they cannot distinguish between your pre-residency savings and offshore business income. But are you‍ sure you did not have an obligation to declare your offshore assets, bank checking and⁠ savings accounts in prior tax years? You might get ambushed for non-disclosure of offshore assets⁤ if you claim your business income as per-residency savings they never assumed you had.

Slowly draining those offshore funds via debit cards should not be an issue, but I'd be⁣ very careful about bringing in 6-figure sums to Ecuador as pre-residency savings if I were⁢ you.

Slightly better, because there's︁ tax.

BGL in Luxembourg (Owned by BNP Paribas) is one of the best banking options.︂ Montserrat is gaining traction in EU because it qualifies for most EU participation exemption regimes,︃ most notably, The Netherlands'.

If you contact BGL via E-mail or phone, expect typical crap︄ replies - "we don't work with offshore/non-resident/non-luxembourgish"; "we don't share this kind of information due︅ to internal policy, bla bla bla...". You have to go in person to hear anything︆ useful in regards to account opening. Having an EU VAT number should do the trick,︇ even if EU sales are a tiny percentage of your turnover.

More popular options are︈ CIM in Switzerland, or Wirecardbank in Germany. Both will give you an account opening answer︉ via E-mail. Once you have the EU VAT number and a bit of turnover, as︊ well as the ability to demonstrate your business transactions in a greater detail, "upgrade" to︋ BGL and keep CIM or Wirecard as your secondary account. If you have let's say︌ 3M annual turnover, it's better to push the flows through 2 different banks, 1.5M each.︍ I can't emphasize how important it is to mitigate bank-initiated AML bulls**t and account freeze︎ risk. Even if one bank is not as good as the other, it pays to️ not throw away the inferior option. You never know when your account manager is feeling‌ a little communist.

 

[user9823671]

No idea if there was an obligation too,⁤ but I didn't. But I don't think there is. There has been a big push⁣ to get retirees to move here in the last 10 years. Get them to bring⁢ over their lifesavings and then have them spend it in the local economy. Never heard︀ anyone mention an obligation to show proof of savings.

Already have. £20k at a time (maximum can send from UK bank without having︃ to send a fax (lol) to confirm it. Would have sent more but getting access︄ to a fax proved impossible. Just transfer it to the wife's bank account (I don't︅ have one here).

Might need to scale those expectations down. Turn over / profit (business is basically 0 cost︆ so is all profit) is about $150k at the moment. Aiming to double that with︇ an end of year relaunch. But unlikely the business has more potential than that.

Would CIM / BGL, bother looking at a business like that?

Tbh am not even sure︈ if I need a proper bank account. Only need to pay for a couple of︉ servers and domain names and a few resources. Probably <$1000 a year. Then something to︊ receive funds from a payment processor who would handle purchase / subscriptions (paypal / cards︋ / and any other that different countries use). Then pay myself to my personal account︌ and use that to transfer here.

 

[Tax Cow]

@user9823671



CIM does not mind a small turnover but BGL will likely not show any interest‍ in early-stage oneman'ers with no employees.



If you had a consulting business with a handful⁤ of clients, you could opt for a payroll management (umbrella) company that would handle the⁣ invoicing and compliance for you, and you could cash in directly to your personal account.⁢ But it's not the kind of business you have.

With an online business that requires︀ card payment facilities, I wouldn't count on finding someone willing to accept payments on behalf︁ your company and then placing the funds on your personal account. Technically, it's a simple︂ task, but the laws and regulations make it next to impossible. For your safety, take︃ any offers that allow this as scam. Maybe you could consider an all-in-one digital bank︄ (EMI) that issues a virtual IBAN and offers facilities to accept card payments. There's a︅ big EMI thread on this forum HERE. Pay close attention to supported jurisdictions before︆ you pick a jurisdiction to incorporate.



Yes, I've︉ heard that.

But is dollarization of the economy in Ecuador a higher priority over tax︊ laws enforcement? You're in the mindset of "wishful thinking". If the priorities were in your︋ favor, they would implement a territorial tax system that Panama uses, and flood the country︌ with USD notes way faster.



LOL. This sounds like a solution! If the taxman asks you about the origins of️ funds, just say that you could not transfer all savings when you re-located 10 years‌ ago. Those nasty Brits are hateful towards those who already moved on from Windows 95‍ and the fax machine.

 

[user9823671]

and ignorance to be honest.‌

everything seems so simple at first, then the more you look into it, the more‍ complicated it gets then it all gets left until "next year" and 10 years pass.⁠