Bitcoin up above 22.000 $US right now!!!

[nomad999]

eadeveloper said:
Just like Linux users or Tesla holders, it's hilarious how people become that fanatic sometimes
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if you had actually read that whitepaper trying to understand it, you would believe the same way 🙂
plot twist, bitcoin is backed by math and simple code that can be learned easily and verified through logic, reason and common sense, unlike the bible or whatever religious beliefs you seem to compare it to.

isn't Linux the OS running quadrillions of electronic devices on the planet today ?

call it whatever you want, bitcoin is a revolutionary technology, very real and incredible, with a huge potential to make for a better tomorrow that is absolutely worth being enthusiastic about. And yes, like Linux and Tesla.

hilarious how young people tend to follow things that are likely to brighten their future.

 

[exprtadvisrdev]

nomad999 said:
if you had actually read that whitepaper trying to understand it, you would believe the same way 🙂
plot twist, bitcoin is backed by math and simple code that can be learned easily and verified through logic, reason and common sense, unlike the bible or whatever religious beliefs you seem to compare it to.

isn't Linux the OS running quadrillions of electronic devices on the planet today ?

call it whatever you want, bitcoin is a revolutionary technology, very real and incredible, with a huge potential to make for a better tomorrow that is absolutely worth being enthusiastic about. And yes, like Linux and Tesla.

hilarious how young people tend to follow things that are likely to brighten their future.
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Dude I read the paper back in 2013-2014 when I first mine a Bitcoin and I have been using cryptos for years to receive and send money from different countries, I don't HODL like prayers of get rich quick schemes do.

I'm building a "stock market" for real state in South America based in the Stellar network myself because I really believe in the blockchain technology.

I use Linux everyday since I started coding and I own Tesla stocks (but I have to say that lot of people do now since it was included in the S&P500)...

Now days Bitcoin/Linux/Tesla fanboys act like Apple/Xiaomi/Pc gaming fanboys.

Don't get me wrong, I hope cryptos and blockchain implementations get more accepted by people but I just think it's hilarious how people become that fanatic sometimes

 

[nomad999]

eadeveloper said:
Dude I read the paper back in 2013-2014 when I first mine a Bitcoin and I have been using cryptos for years to receive and send money from different countries, I don't HODL like prayers of get rich quick schemes do.

I'm building a "stock market" for real state in South America based in the Stellar network myself because I really believe in the blockchain technology.

I use Linux everyday since I started coding and I own Tesla stocks (but I have to say that lot of people do now since it was included in the S&P500)...

Now days Bitcoin/Linux/Tesla fanboys act like Apple/Xiaomi/Pc gaming fanboys.

Don't get me wrong, I hope cryptos and blockchain implementations get more accepted by people but I just think it's hilarious how people become that fanatic sometimes
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Ok lol, well i find the sceptics to be hilarious rather than the fanatics for dismissing something that has so much fundamentals and potential.
Bitcoin has the potential to go 100x within 10y, in my book that alone deserves all my attention !

 

[CaptK]

An athlete has asked to receive his salary via BTC.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...s-first-nfl-player-to-be-paid-in-bitcoin/amp/

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

nomad999 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1342956455159353344

is bitcoin increasing in value or is the USD going bonker ?
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I saw that shitweet, whoever wrote is hugely ignorant of world (let alone economic) history. I don't know what bitcoin (actually, not the info floating around repeated by parrots) is, does, represents, etc, but if you're doing an exercise of history repeating itself, and don't want to look like a fool (despite the fact that Bitcoin traders, regardless the millions they will make, are fools/ignorants in history), you should compare it to the South Sea Company:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj655qFwfXtAhVS2SoKHbEbD9MQFjAAegQIAxAC&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sea_Company&usg=AOvVaw1xT-YNt6fqin4BRTtrmjKK

Why? Because at the end of the day, no matter what you say, you trade BTC as a SPECULATIVE tool to make money. Yes, you'll parrot me all the goodies of it, but all the same, you're not in for the technology, you're in it for the money. And so were those that invested in the SSC back in the day (and they too were promised millions in return for their investment, based on the big expectations the company had).

part I of the message

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

I don't hold BTC as a form of safeguard against what's to come, I rather use gold, because of gold's history in money. The gold-to-paper mark comparison to USD-BTC has a "minor" flaw...if you read 'When Money Dies', a book that is an eye-opener on what those 5 years were for the German people, you'll come to realize that the gold mark was ACTUALLY a tool of EXCHANGE and demanded by allied forces as PAYMENT for war reparations, mainly by France (and England, too). And therein lies the big difference with BTC -at least for now, I'm not a clairvoyant and don't know what the next move will be-, that it is not a government-level (again, yet) medium of exchange, which means that, after all is said and done, you either cash out in your local currency or you can't function on a daily basis at the most basic of levels (grocery stores, etc). Yes, you can use it in some places, but it's not widespread, and I doubt the holders of the world's reserve currency will allow it to become the regular medium of exchange without a (big) fuss.

part II

Because, let's be honest, this "digital" revolution is coming from the East (where the capital is moving as the world is shifting the balance of power), with Russia (ETH founder anyone?) and China (debt cancellation through key strokes on a CCP machine using CBDC anyone?), the ones most interested in it, as it would take away the (perhaps) biggest weapon the US has: the USD (still accounting for 70%+ of the world's trade!). We could go on forever with this, but I'll just demand one thing from the BTC maximalists: at least show some respect for world history and don't peddle your BS without at least having read 1 or 2 books in economy. It's getting quite gross...

part III

Long story short, as a speculative tool, and like the technical analysis fan that I am, I saw a huge opportunity on a very large ascending double bottom that formed after the tanking to 4K earlier in the year, with the neck around 16K and a total projection of 12.5K. That target, when the neckline of the figure broke (you'll spot it easily on a daily chart of the CME futures contract), I went in, and today, thanks to all the hype, and much sooner than I would've thought, it paid in full @ 28.5K. Not bad for a technical trade, I must say, so clean and fast I can hardly remember in these 20+ years of doing it of having seen anything similar. All the same, I've cashed out and if another pattern emerges, I'll take it...if it goes straight to the moon from here, fair enough...congrats to those who keep it. No point bragging about it, no point even thinking about bragging about it, lol...this is financial trading we're talking, there are a thousand ways to make money (or lose big) in it, why is people so adamant on showing their size on this particular trade? OTM options not good enough of a risk/reward for you? Seriously?

part IV and last one - sorry for this, couldn't get it all in one post, so had to chop it in parts...@Admin why is that?

NVO

 

[nomad999]

Nicholas Van Orton said:
despite the fact that Bitcoin traders, regardless the millions they will make, are fools/ignorants in history
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pretty sure that apply to the vast majority of the population 😉
thx for the history lesson though, always interesting!

you have to agree that the chart of the M2 money supply is getting a bit worrying ... +25% in 2020, whats next ?

Nicholas Van Orton said:
Because at the end of the day, no matter what you say, you trade BTC as a SPECULATIVE tool to make money.
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that's where you are wrong ah! at this point bitcoin is clearly becoming the equivalent of a saving account for me and for many others, so far holding bitcoin has been extremely rewarding despite the many crazy -85% bear markets, at least if your time horizon is over 3-5 years, and this is bound to get shorter as bitcoin marketcap keep expanding.
the notion of a saving account in banking is gone now with negative rates everywhere, bitcoin bring that back at full speed !
bitcoin will not replace money, we will always use other currency for daily transaction, for now we are clearly heading toward government issued digital currency, hopefully up until bitcoin layer 2 solutions or whatever decentralized crypto are robust and proven ... we shall see !

I don't know about you but I really love having my savings safely stored on a decentralized global network that nobody can get their hands on without asking me first and that I can bring along everywhere I go. if your time horizon is over 3-5 years this is an absolute reality right now and you get rewarded handsomely !
on top of that now there is many ways to get over 5% interests on your bitcoin and even borrow with bitcoin as collateral, if you are willing to hand over your precious btc to a third party.

did you notice that guy I posted above who put the treasury of his public company into bitcoin ? worth over 1.5B USD now or close to that. he was able to liquidate about a half a billion USD in days twice the past few months.

now gold is like 2% annual fees, over 2% inflation and you have to trust a third party to hold it for you. all that with a meager 25% gain during the best years ... why not bitcoin, seriously why ???

the video I posted above is not a shill of some bs crypto guy, it is a brilliant demonstration of economic principle that highlight why bitcoin is a safe haven asset from a MIT rocket scientist who had no knowledge of bitcoin before march 2020 and the mad money printing from the central banks.

 

[Martin Everson]

Some people are so sold on crypto they have lost touch with reality. Most don't realize this is all pump and dump. The rise in bitcoin represents the rise in stupidity. The technology risk is too great to be in it long term. Ride the pumps and dump every time. But as I always say some people will have to learn the hard way sadly.

Toggle signature
Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[nomad999]

Martin Everson said:
Some people are so sold on crypto they have lost touch with reality. Most don't realize this is all pump and dump. The rise in bitcoin represents the rise in stupidity. The technology risk is too great to be in it long term. Ride the pumps and dump every time. But as I always say some people will have to learn the hard way sadly.
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It doesn't take a genius to not buy the top ... unless you do buy the top you are absolutely fine most of the time. Whoever think we are anywhere near the top will be very surprised.

Martin Everson said:
The technology risk is too great to be in it long term. Ride the pumps and dump every time.
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5 stages of grief :

1 Denial
2 Anger
3 Bargaining
4 Depression
5 Acceptance

Looks like you are at stage 3 Bargaining, just a matter of time before acceptance smi(&%

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

nomad999 said:
It doesn't take a genius to not buy the top ... unless you do buy the top you are absolutely fine most of the time. Whoever think we are anywhere near the top will be very surprised.


5 stages of grief :

1 Denial
2 Anger
3 Bargaining
4 Depression
5 Acceptance

Looks like you are at stage 3 Bargaining, just a matter of time before acceptance smi(&%
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I'm happy for you, since you seem to know what the future holds (could you pass me the lottery ticket winner, while we're at it?). Now seriously, and without joining the cock-fight, if your scenarios pan out, congrats to you, enjoy the (huge) profits. I explained what opportunity I saw, and unfortunately (for me) I can't see another one for now, and certainly not it the same way you do. My (or your) views don't make a market, we're in it for the money, convincing (or not) others of what we do doesn't get paid.

part I

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

What I must respectfully dispute is (since I find it very hard to reconciliate the terms you used):

nomad999 said:
despite the many crazy -85% bear markets, at least if your time horizon is over 3-5 years
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nomad999 said:
I don't know about you but I really love having my savings safely stored on a decentralized global network
Click to expand...

part II

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

combining "-85% bear market" with the term "savings" is what I find odd and makes any debate about BTC futile. Mike Burry also stood 3-odd years in the dark (and almost got margin called out) before his ASYMMETRIC TRADE paid him big. He saw the deal of his life then and there, bet the whole farm on it (literally all of his fund's assets), and stood his ground through (a lot of) thick and thin.

part III

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

But he never would've discussed his position as a 'savings', but a 'trade'. The moment you guys acknowledge you're in it for the money and thus more like investing in a fund, an asymmetric trade that you've found, or deep and very cheap OTM options, then we can talk. Like with Tesla, I'm sorry but I don't buy the hypocrisy and woke attitude of 'investing in its visionary technology', while at the same time counting the % of gain that is being made...even more so as that kind of talk was non-existent during the March price tanking (at least I didn't see anyone coming to the rescue when it dropped 70%, I guess a super-technology that doesn't pay the bills, a vacation or just makes you rich doesn't deserve any praise, right?).

part IV

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

Finally, just to put things in perspective, I cashed out on +12.5K out of a 16K entry, or a gain of +78.125%. If we're purely talking in % terms (my performance has always been measured in % terms to my portfolio AUM, never in units of currency), that honestly is a very modest gain (albeit rather quick), when you compare it to some OTM options trades that have paid 10-12X the risk or even just some individual stocks that since March have seen their price up 12-15 times (BTC 6X approx from March lows). So, while respectable, if we're measuring sizes here, you'll find places where things got even rosier. The difference is that BTC, given its formulation, jumps in the thousands of dollars per unit rather quickly, making things look very spectacular. My take is that, in any case, retailers don't hold full BTCs in their wallets, but just portions of it, so their gains are adjusted size-wise.

part V

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

As I said, not joining the fight here, just clarifying some concepts which I believe are very badly presented and misconstrued and which lead to a cult-hype type of phenomenon which, to my eyes, it discredits an otherwise fantastic investment (given its performance). And again, if your views and scenario are correct, I do wish you success and joy from the ride, well deserved.

NVO

part VI and last ---

PS: I'm sorry again for the chopping, but it wouldn't otherwise let me post it... @Admin this is cruel, I can't keep any debate going as I feel am being silenced with the word-count restriction! LOOOL 😱😛

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

nomad999 said:
you have to agree that the chart of the M2 money supply is getting a bit worrying ... +25% in 2020, whats next ?
View attachment 2021
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This is where the intellectually-rich debate with BTC holders ends, hence discrediting it. Quickly: do you know which are the 2 best performing stock markets in the world for the last 2 years? MERVAL and BVC. Where? ARS and VEF are their currencies, find out. Check those charts and see their % gain. BTC ill be past 1MM if it matches it. However, do you know why almost nobody in those countries has profited from it, let alone hunger and poverty on the rise? That's right, big/huge currency debasement, like Germany 1922-23. Now, apply that to an scenario where the USD collapses (alongside other FIAT ccies), hyperinflation follows (really big) and BTC is NOT a legal medium of exchange...what will happen to those millions you own in BTC but that you have to cash out in USD/Fiat to LIVE or do your daily things (because storing it does not work anymore as you need to convert them because your salary/earnings are not enough)? That's right...you'll be holding toilet or wheelbarrow (quickly-debasing) paper.

Thus, as long as you don't over-hype on the thrashing of the USD to present your thesis and stick to your profits from a great trade, we may have a conversation, otherwise it gets rather boring. As @CaptK put it "sellers are selling and buyers are buying" and that's what a market looks like, so let it be.

NVO

Last edited: Dec 31, 2020

 

[nomad999]

look I am not saying the usd is going into hyperinflation, nobody knows, but still looking at the state of things this is getting worrying ...
btw bitcoin is very popular in venezuela and argentina, I read in venezuela you can even pay your taxes in btc. the law will always change as needed, its literally impossible to prevent people from using bitcoin, there is no way to enforce it. while its impractical for groceries, it is still doable to buy stuff directly with bitcoin peer to peer.

the point is despite regular bear market of -85% (about once every 3y so far), on average and over a 3-5 years period bitcoin increase in USD value well over 100% year on year. This is literally the best asset (dare I say currency ?) you could own long term, period.

one fundamental is, the production of bitcoin is reduced by 50% about every 4 years, today there is half less bitcoin being created per day than last april for instance, as the last halving was in May 2020. the current price increase we are witnessing is the direct result of this.

now the assumption that can be debated is, will the demand for bitcoin keep increasing ? that's the bet people like me who put their money in this are making.

its simple, the more people will jump on the bitcoin train, the more people will want to get in. Metcalfe's law kind of applies in this case, think facebook growth from 1M users in 2004 to 1B users in 2012 but replace user with money.
think about this, someone join facebook and tell their friends to join in, how many friend the average person has ? this is how fast the network will grow.
now with bitcoin its not about the amount of friends but the amount of money you are putting in, how many friends does Paul Tudor Jones bring in when he join facebook ? now how much money is he putting into bitcoin ?
i am badly paraphrasing Michael Saylor here but you can see how bitcoin is prone for an absolute mad exponential growth the like that has never been seen in history. The incentive to join the bitcoin network is infinitely more valuable than facebook, we are talking money here !
don't listen to me, just watch the video I posted above, the guy explained all this in the most brilliant fashion with a very deep knowledge of the financial space.

with this why not use bitcoin as a saving account ? I had CHF as savings for many years and was not living in Switzerland, I had to convert to local currency to do my groceries, guess what ? now I moved to bitcoin instead of CHF !
better than that, I will be borrowing against bitcoin as collateral and will never have to sell my bitcoin !! on top of that bitcoin is literally the best asset to own hands down.

when bitcoin surpassed the market cap of gold it will start to become as volatile as gold and will keep increasing because of the many more properties bitcoin has over gold, guess where the volatility is going as the marketcap incrases ? no more crazy bear market then.

why this will not collapse as some people think ? because the fundamental are rock solid! why would you NOT want to use bitcoin as a long term store of value as oppose to anything else ?

techonology risk ? like what ? an UFO landing on earth to give us infinite energy ? well guess what there is a solution to that too !

 

[exprtadvisrdev]

nomad999 said:
I read in venezuela you can even pay your taxes in btc. the law will always change as needed, its literally impossible to prevent people from using bitcoin, there is no way to enforce it.
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Just a quick correction I want to do: In Venezuela there is a lot of people in jail because of mining and crypto transactions, now that the government stole lot of equipment they accepted the trend because that way they can legally mine cryptos and sell them for USD (it's easier to mine Bitcoins than continue killing people in the Amazonas for Gold). So yeah, there are ways to prevent people to use cryptos, it all goes to how totalitarian you want to be.

 

[nomad999]

eadeveloper said:
Just a quick correction I want to do: In Venezuela there is a lot of people in jail because of mining and crypto transactions, now that the government stole lot of equipment they accepted the trend because that way they can legally mine cryptos and sell them for USD (it's easier to mine Bitcoins than continue killing people in the Amazonas for Gold). So yeah, there are ways to prevent people to use cryptos, it all goes to how totalitarian you want to be.
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good point, but you missed the part where those miners where not paying for electricity as it was provided for free by the government 😉

I think the government has switch is view on crypto because they don't have a choice since they are blacklisted everywhere.

 

[exprtadvisrdev]

nomad999 said:
good point, but you missed the part where those miners where not paying for electricity as it was provided for free by the government
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False, electricity was being paid, most of the people that don't pay electricity there are "invasores" and those people can't afford mining equipments (the government subsidize electricity it's another point, but it was being paid). They put those miners in Jail because they where suppliers of USDs in the black market and that doesn't help the government utopia of their socialist paradise plus they can steal the equipment and mine themselves (just like with equipment that goes to the frontiers)... And no, they didn't switched their minds because they are blacklisted, they just switched to it because it's a way of making money (and because they were already doing it so why not say it's legal now and start charging/stealing taxes on miners).

Again, you can prevent people from using it but it depends on how totalitarian you want to be. Miners are the easiest to find since you only need to track the electricity consumption increase.

PS: I still recommend lot of people and my family in Venezuela to use cryptos since Venezuelan currency it's a piece of s**t