- Status
Depending on gross income you can look at micro entrepreneur.
Even better get a real job, get on chomage briefly and get ACCRE , BEFORE becoming micro entrepreneur and then no charges sociales 🙂 if you're single you'll have impots which you can most likely erase by investing in PEL and similar saving accounts.
Even better get a real job, get on chomage briefly and get ACCRE , BEFORE becoming micro entrepreneur and then no charges sociales 🙂 if you're single you'll have impots which you can most likely erase by investing in PEL and similar saving accounts.
Sadly, my experience in France (as an invited foreign entrepreneur) has been nothing️ like this.
Business matters are super expensive for sure. Eg, bookkeeping starts at €350 a month (I don't pay €350 a year in other countries). Administration is over the top. Another example, there are 145 lines of information required to send on each salary, every month to the authorities. And none of the affordable accounting systems have integration with the tax authorities so you have to spend weeks debugging tiny amounts of irrelevant information to upload files in their specific formats. Most payroll processing system are €100 a month person understandably for the obsolete. By law you even need to keep electronic copies or receipts︀ as pdfs for 50 years, stored on a French file server, with time stamped data︁ entry logs!
The staffing subsidies do exist, and some are quite good. but take 6︂ months to arrive. Again not within the promised 6 weeks. Banking is relatively expensive too︃ . Online government support and services are a lot smaller in France than other EU︄ countries. There is a strong tendency to try to get you on the phone. As︅ I don't speak French we hired a local business manager to do this and even︆ he found the system way too cumbersome. The tax office is either aggressively attacking you︇ or friendly as hell. I had to threaten them with another letter to Macron if︈ they didn't remove the €1800 penalty they hit me with for being late with our︉ first €0 payroll report (that couldn't be lodged as they couldn't even open an online︊ account for us)
After dealing with the fiscal authorities together with the immigration admin (18︋ months instead of the promised 2), health system complexity, even swapping drivers licenses took 2︌ years (and still no proper motorcycle license), we cut our losses, sacked our local staff,︍ and moved our operations outside of France. I still maintain a company there for now,︎ but it does very little. It is quite useful in Europe to have a European️ company though.
We plan to use a tech savvy, English speaking country (maybe Ireland or Malta) for lodging our non-treaty taxation reports in the future.
As a digital nomad I'm rarely in France anyway so the personal taxation issues aren't a major consideration.
I agree that French taxes are pretty much in alignment with many OECD countries, but the admin overhead is over the top for me.
Business matters are super expensive for sure. Eg, bookkeeping starts at €350 a month (I don't pay €350 a year in other countries). Administration is over the top. Another example, there are 145 lines of information required to send on each salary, every month to the authorities. And none of the affordable accounting systems have integration with the tax authorities so you have to spend weeks debugging tiny amounts of irrelevant information to upload files in their specific formats. Most payroll processing system are €100 a month person understandably for the obsolete. By law you even need to keep electronic copies or receipts︀ as pdfs for 50 years, stored on a French file server, with time stamped data︁ entry logs!
The staffing subsidies do exist, and some are quite good. but take 6︂ months to arrive. Again not within the promised 6 weeks. Banking is relatively expensive too︃ . Online government support and services are a lot smaller in France than other EU︄ countries. There is a strong tendency to try to get you on the phone. As︅ I don't speak French we hired a local business manager to do this and even︆ he found the system way too cumbersome. The tax office is either aggressively attacking you︇ or friendly as hell. I had to threaten them with another letter to Macron if︈ they didn't remove the €1800 penalty they hit me with for being late with our︉ first €0 payroll report (that couldn't be lodged as they couldn't even open an online︊ account for us)
After dealing with the fiscal authorities together with the immigration admin (18︋ months instead of the promised 2), health system complexity, even swapping drivers licenses took 2︌ years (and still no proper motorcycle license), we cut our losses, sacked our local staff,︍ and moved our operations outside of France. I still maintain a company there for now,︎ but it does very little. It is quite useful in Europe to have a European️ company though.
We plan to use a tech savvy, English speaking country (maybe Ireland or Malta) for lodging our non-treaty taxation reports in the future.
As a digital nomad I'm rarely in France anyway so the personal taxation issues aren't a major consideration.
I agree that French taxes are pretty much in alignment with many OECD countries, but the admin overhead is over the top for me.
This is an interesting perspective and thank you for this. While France is not easy for anyone, local or foreign,︀ I do think if you are local (or at least an EU national), you speak︁ French etc. your experience would be different and your costs would be lower. The OP︂ as far as I know is French, so less likely to have the obstacles you︃ are facing - especially with regards to payroll solutions and the likes. That said it︄ is cheaper and better to outsource to local specialized companies rather than hiring a local︅ manager for these sorts of things. But I admit not all local companies will have︆ English speaking staff and the ones that do, likely charge a premium.
T
thomasparra
Guest
I am not surprised about your experience. I see France as a little Japan where things are harder for foreigners especially when you don't speak the language.
Your operations involve hiring and paying staff as well, which is generally cumbersome and expensive especially in France, even if you pay them minimum wage (but you still need to understand and get through the red tape that hiring someone involve - which again for a non French speaker is tough).
I will start the business in France and see where it goes - it is also a way to test the business and get my book of clients in France/Europe. I can move the operations overseas after a year or two if the business is successful and taxes are hard to avoid/optimize on.
Your operations involve hiring and paying staff as well, which is generally cumbersome and expensive especially in France, even if you pay them minimum wage (but you still need to understand and get through the red tape that hiring someone involve - which again for a non French speaker is tough).
I will start the business in France and see where it goes - it is also a way to test the business and get my book of clients in France/Europe. I can move the operations overseas after a year or two if the business is successful and taxes are hard to avoid/optimize on.
I am not surprised about your experience. I see France as a little Japan where things are harder for foreigners especially when you don't speak the language.
Your operations involve hiring and paying staff as well, which is generally cumbersome and expensive especially in France, even if you pay them minimum wage (but you still need to understand and get through the red tape that hiring someone involve - which again for a non French speaker is tough).
I will start the business in France and see where it goes - it is also a way to test the business and get my book of︀ clients in France/Europe. I can move the operations overseas after a year or two if︁ the business is successful and taxes are hard to avoid/optimize on.
Your operations involve hiring and paying staff as well, which is generally cumbersome and expensive especially in France, even if you pay them minimum wage (but you still need to understand and get through the red tape that hiring someone involve - which again for a non French speaker is tough).
I will start the business in France and see where it goes - it is also a way to test the business and get my book of︀ clients in France/Europe. I can move the operations overseas after a year or two if︁ the business is successful and taxes are hard to avoid/optimize on.
T
thomasparra
Guest
Thanks, will do..
Funny. But again, the business might not easily reach 50k margin before year 2 and it's not like the forum has offered alternative options. Creating a company in another EU country or in a juridiction where I used to live (HK or US for instance) does not make sense either apparently. 🙂
I won't get killed by the French taxman on 50k before tax really... if/when I make EBIT in the 6 figure zone maybe then I can think of moving away...
Thanks, will do..
Funny. But again, the business might not easily reach 50k margin before year 2 and it's not like the forum has offered alternative options. Creating a company in another EU country or in a juridiction where I used to live (HK or US for instance) does not make sense either apparently. 🙂
I won't get killed by the French taxman on 50k before tax really... if/when I make EBIT in the 6 figure zone maybe then︀ I can think of moving away...
Funny. But again, the business might not easily reach 50k margin before year 2 and it's not like the forum has offered alternative options. Creating a company in another EU country or in a juridiction where I used to live (HK or US for instance) does not make sense either apparently. 🙂
I won't get killed by the French taxman on 50k before tax really... if/when I make EBIT in the 6 figure zone maybe then︀ I can think of moving away...
T
thomasparra
Guest
T
thomasparra
Guest
I could move back my residency there and only come to France a couple months per year?
T
thomasparra
Guest
If my clients are businesses and located in Europe, paint me by wire transfer directly to the company bank accounts - does it still work realistically?
If my clients are businesses and located in Europe, paint me by wire transfer directly to the company bank accounts - does it still work realistically?
You have to check the rules (especially if there is an applicable tax treaty) in detail. There's still a risk you'd be tax resident in France.
There's a major risk there will be a PE in France, but you may be able to fly under the radar.
There's a major risk there will be a PE in France, but you may be able to fly under the radar.
- Status