Bank Account without EU banking info?

[Scratch]

Hi,

I'm interested in knowing whether the Mentor Group Gold section of the forum has information in regards to how to open a bank account in an EU country, without being a resident in that country (meaning without having a utility bill/employment/rental contract)?

I would like to join the group and participate, but not sure about the available information.

Thanks!

 

[Forester]

1) If you search through the publicly available threads, you will find⁠ a lot of useful information re: this matter, IMO. (BTW, the answer heavily depends on⁤ your current residence, citizenship, amount of money that you can put at the banker's table⁣ etc. etc.) You can also ask for further clarification.
2) If the result of (1)⁢ do not satisfy you, then Mentor Group is the proper place to ask further questions.︀

 

[Scratch]

Thanks for the reply!

I did search and read a lot, but eventually,⁣ I come to the conclusion that all bank accounts require a document that ties you⁢ to that country... I do not understand why "non resident" bank accounts exise, when banks︀ de facto require you to be a partial resident in order to pen a non-resident︁ account.

My case is that I live in a non-CRS country (with low taxes, one︂ of the smallest countries in the world) and work remotely as a developer. I need︃ a bank account, anywhere in Europe, as that's a requirement for one of my clients︄ to pay the salary, nothing huge, around 10k EUR a month.

An EMI might be︅ even better, but I was rejected from Wise, Bankera and Wittix because of my country︆ of residence. Payoneer did accept me, but I would not like to trust them with︇ my money due to the horror stories of banning people and freezing funds. Perhaps there︈ are more trusted EMIs that work with people outside the EU/EEA?

Otherwise, I've been to︉ four countries trying to open a bank account, most recently even to Serbia, and got︊ denied because of not having a temporary residence permit. I explained my situation and offered︋ to deposit large sums (I would have over 100k before the end of the year︌ from the salaries), to use the account only for salary, it didn't help.

 

[Forester]

No, generally it is not so.
This can be a problem,⁠ see below.
Salary? Do you work⁢ as an employee? (I doubt, I guess you are a contractor – so the client︀ would pay your invoices; but please confirm.)
100k is not a large sum if it concerns banking; but of course not negligible.
Without knowing your country of residence and current citizenship it is practically impossible to give a︉ more detailed advice; share it.
The information about the country where your european client is︊ located will also help.

 

[JohnLocke]

I changed the title of the thread to the relevant topic discussed here.

 

[Scratch]

Correct, I meant to write invoices as I'm a contractor.
I have a Bosnian citizenship, and the client is︀ from Switzerland.

Would you have suggestions around my issue? Any EMI that's stable and trusted?︁ Or a banking solution? It can also be outside the EU, as long as it's︂ in Europe and EUR-denominated.

 

[Forester]

OK, it means you need a business account, in fact. Or a personal account with‍ an institution that does not care so much. It can complicate the issue a little⁠ bit.
Well, Bosnian passport it⁤ not of the worsest, luckily.
So you can prove some ties to Switzerland. Perfect.
I am missing the info about your current residence – where do you︀ live. (Not all residences are supported by all banks/EMIs.)
BTW, this Swiss client really insists on paying you in EU (i.e. not in CHF) and︂ to an Europe-located account? A little bit strange; but why not...

 

[Scratch]

I invoice without a company at the moment, would⁠ that be a problem? Not sure why I wouldn't be able to invoice with a⁤ personal account?
Does that mean I can⁢ open a Swiss bank account? I'm supposed to go there sometime around January 2023 to︀ visit the HQ. But wouldn't then my Swiss sourced income be subject to Swiss taxation?︁
I live in Bosnia as a︅ residence. I do think the client can pay in CHF as well, just that the︆ contract is in EUR, I guess they do that for all contractors, but I imagine︇ I can ask them to change to CHF if needed. The problem is, they are︈ related to crypto (although my salary/invoices are normal developer ones and not related to crypto/exchanges/finance),︉ and Payoneer lists those transactions as prohibited, and my bank may also cause problems down︊ the line, so I'm looking to switch to a better EMI/bank/country, but without losing the︋ tax residence status I currently have.

I talked with Wittix, and they said it's okay︌ to receive the invoices there as they are not crypto-related, but then rejected me based︍ on residence. I think Payoneer could also work, but they have terrible customer support, so︎ I'll probably not have anyone to talk to once my funds get frozen.

 

[Forester]

It depends on the laws of Bosnia (where you reside) but generally,‍ perhaps everywhere you can work as a freelancer, i.e. without company. But maybe you have⁠ to register somehow – I do not know. Consult a local lawyer if you want⁤ to avoid later problems with taxmen etc.
It depends on the Terms⁢ of Service of the bank you have an account with; that are heavily dependent on︀ a jurisdiction of the bank. Almost never it is possible to use a personal account︁ for accepting invoices issued by company; sometimes you can use the same account as a︂ freelancer and as a non-business person, sometimes not. It is very recommendable to check it︃ beforehand, to avoid evt. account freezing and suspension.
Yes, very probably; but see below.
Why? You are not a tax resident of Switzerland. But as taxing is concerned,︆ it is always worth consulting a tax advisor or a lawyer. For every personal case︇ can be subtle differences, at least in theory.
OK.
Oh well. This is clear. Generally, the most straighforward way for you︌ would be to use a local Bosnian account but I can imagine that payments from︍ a crypto-related company can cause problems; I understand your fears.
Understandable.
Fortunately, I think you can find a Swiss bank that‌ can onboard you because you need to obtain long-term payments from a Swiss company. My‍ first shot would be CIM Banque. I must admit I do not know how they⁠ are (generally) with crypto but I consider it worth trying, you just work as a⁤ developer for a crypto-related company that I presume being legal and in-line with laws (if⁣ not, you are facing a general problem). Contact them (CIM Banque) and tell them that⁢ you are a freelancer working for a Swiss company that wants to pay you locally︀ in Switzerland (check it with the company before but I cannot imagine they can object︁ – if they are legal). If your background is non-problematic (clean criminal record etc.) I︂ think your chances are quite good. IIRC, CIM Banque wanted a first deposit ~(5 or︃ 10) 000 CHF for a business account; I do not know how with freelancers but︄ generally it is not horrible. If it fails, you can try Dukascopy, eventually Swissquote of︅ Flowbank – but the latter (SQ and FB) are basically designed as trading platforms, not︆ retail banks, so they might want you to trade something from time to time; but︇ they are definitely crypto-environment friendly.
I consider some LT EMI as Wittix to be︊ something as the last (and not a very good one) chance in your case.

P.S.
If you can offer a personal visit in the (Swiss) bank, it can help.

 

[Scratch]

Thanks @Forester, this is the best advice I've seen yet on the forum! I'll‌ contact those banks, and I'll ask about documents, so it can improve my chances when‍ visiting in person.

Btw, if I open a bank account with my contractor deal, does⁠ that mean the bank account duration is limited? Like the company can close it a⁤ few years later if I stop working? Not sure also if a bank account opened⁣ with a temporary residence is also limited in how long is lasts?

I do remember reading about other︁ countries, like Greece and Czechia, that they tax locally sourced income the same for non-residents︂ as they do for residents. I'll check about Switzerland though.
Do you know other LT EMIs apart︅ from Wittix that have personal accounts? I found some on Google and research a bit︆ the forums, but not sure which are trusted, as a few seem to have been︇ registered in the past 2 years. Perhaps I can risk it or have a call︈ with them I guess...

 

[Forester]

You are welcome.
Well, I do‍ not think that this is something extraordinary. Perhaps you should have searched better 😉 😉. Nevertheless,⁠ thank you for the compliment; I appreciate it a lot.
Just a remark: Dukascopy, Swissquote and Flowbank are fully adopted to⁢ an on-line account opening, they perhaps even do not expect someone to show in person︀ (altough it is probably possible).
No.
The company? They have no way to do it. Regarding︄ to bank – well, if you are in a good standing with them and they︅ are doing some business with you, they have no reason for suspending the account. They︆ are making some money, so what? BTW, banks tend to be rather conservative, especially Swiss︇ ones.
This depends fully on︉ the bank (and local regulations). If they work with non-residents, see above, it's the same︊ story. If they do not work with non-residents, they will terminate the account when a︋ residency permit expires. Pretty simple.
Yes, it is worth︎ checking in any case. Just be advised that the result is not dependent of a️ fact where you have a bank account.
There is plenty of them.⁤ LT, together with the U.K., is one of two the most EMI-friendly countries in Europe,⁣ with ~70 EMIs. See here https://thebanks.eu/list-of-emis/Lithuania. And you can find a lot of opinion⁢ on them here at forums.
Just two remarks:
1) I am convinced that any LT︀ EMI is worse than a Swiss bank for your use-case.
2) Do not forget that︁ you need a freelancers/business account and not a personal one, especially with a LT EMI.︂ Otherwise you will be finished when you obtain the first payment and when asked for︃ a reason for payment / source of funds you show the invoice. (Bottom line: as︄ for LT EMIs, there is usually a different pricing for personal and business accounts, the︅ latter being much more expensive. And nobody is happy if you pay him differently than︆ you should.)

 

[Scratch]

Quick update @Forester, I'm talking with a bunch of companies and there are a‌ few options.

While I'm weighing options, wanted to ask, do you know if an EMI‍ like Payoneer can know that my invoice payments are coming from a company that is⁠ related to crypto? Most EMIs seem to want to sell my the most expensive account⁤ types due to getting my salary from a crypto payment, but I'm not even sure⁣ if my transactions are classified as crypto-related or high risk. Cheers!

 

[Spinat]

if the company has nothing about that public⁠ they can't know that!

 

[Forester]

That's it, exactly. During the KYC process you will be 99% asked, who‌ are your customers; and for some invoices. If this company has a neutral name, nothing‍ related to crypto at their webpages and the invoice is for C coding (n mandays),⁠ you (@tes100) are safe. If they are named Blockchain Solutions S.A. and/or their⁤ webpage promotes their advanced crypto solutions, you are not safe.
The majority of EMIs and banks is money-hungry.︀ Get used to it ;(
And frankly, crypto-related business (coding︂ included), is a high-risk, generally. (Take into account that you must take e.g. selling groceries︃ for comparison.)

 

[pedromaldonado]

Can you travel to Georgia? It seems you can open a bank account in that‌ country easily. You can even do it remotely (previous payment to a third party)

 

[Spinat]

not sure how you will do that remotely without to give⁠ a PoA to someone that you can't trust long term.

We had a few users⁤ around in the past @Jonny Cage for one of them that do company and banking⁣ there.

 

[pedromaldonado]

Yeah, obviously you need a person you can trust to do the process.⁠ Or take a flight and do it by yourself. Cost will be similar.

 

[Forester]

Is not there a game over in Georgia? For example, read⁠ here Question - Problems with Georgia because of Russia

 

[pedromaldonado]

The page where I got‌ the information about Georgia it does not show any issue about it. In fact, they‍ still are offering the option to open a bank account in Georgia through them: (⁠Cuenta bancaria Georgia - a distancia y sin intercambio de datos). But better to⁤ follow the situation day by day.

 

[Onassis]

I was about to open an account in Georgia through them, they were responsive⁣ and everything was OK on their end.

However I ended up cancelling my application as⁢ I forgot to send them an apostilled document and by then it was too late︀ as my government limited access to courts to only those who had a Covid pass/QR︁ code.