0% plan and coming back from tax haven after 10 years
- Thread starter zzzzzz
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Yes this is possible under a couple of conditions.
You will have to︋ move to a country that your home country has a tax treaty with, if that︌ is the case you can get treaty protection under the following conditions.
1. You have︍ a permanent home in your new country of residence and not in your home country︎ (staying with relatives is possible if you don't have permanent access to that home and️ don't have your "own room" in that home.
2. Stay 183 days or more in your new country of residence.
If you fulfill these conditions you have treaty protection making it impossible for the taxman to consider you tax resident in your home country, it doesn't mean they won't try but you will have treaty protection which overrides local laws.
A TRC is the most useless piece of paper on this planet, it doesn't give you any sort of protection.
You will have to︋ move to a country that your home country has a tax treaty with, if that︌ is the case you can get treaty protection under the following conditions.
1. You have︍ a permanent home in your new country of residence and not in your home country︎ (staying with relatives is possible if you don't have permanent access to that home and️ don't have your "own room" in that home.
2. Stay 183 days or more in your new country of residence.
If you fulfill these conditions you have treaty protection making it impossible for the taxman to consider you tax resident in your home country, it doesn't mean they won't try but you will have treaty protection which overrides local laws.
A TRC is the most useless piece of paper on this planet, it doesn't give you any sort of protection.
You are right. "Permanent home available to him" is the first test that tends to fail.. then you are left with CVI (centre of vital interest). If you spend most of your time in one country, your CVI is quite clearly there...unless there is strong evidence proving otherwise
Staying 183 days or more in a new country supports the claim that the CVI︉ is there.
183 days stay is actually more important for employment purposes. If you stayed︊ in one country for 183 days, then at least you can be sure your employment︋ income will not be taxed in another country where you stayed for less time.
At the end of the︍ day, tax authorities can also deviate from the law and act opportunistically, claiming your tax︎ residence. Then it's up to you to prove them otherwise.
Two countries can also interpret️ the tax treaty differently. In this case, MAP (mutual agreement procedure) helps, which you, as a taxpayer, need to request, e.g., to claim for adjustment.
The MAP is the mechanism that Contracting States use to resolve any disputes or difficulties that arise in the course of implementing and applying the treaty.
There is no such thing really.
Countries can interpret DTT differently, both claiming your tax residence based on a DTT.
Then you have MAP to sort it out, which can further end up in arbitration.
Staying 183 days or more in a new country supports the claim that the CVI︉ is there.
183 days stay is actually more important for employment purposes. If you stayed︊ in one country for 183 days, then at least you can be sure your employment︋ income will not be taxed in another country where you stayed for less time.
At the end of the︍ day, tax authorities can also deviate from the law and act opportunistically, claiming your tax︎ residence. Then it's up to you to prove them otherwise.
Two countries can also interpret️ the tax treaty differently. In this case, MAP (mutual agreement procedure) helps, which you, as a taxpayer, need to request, e.g., to claim for adjustment.
The MAP is the mechanism that Contracting States use to resolve any disputes or difficulties that arise in the course of implementing and applying the treaty.
There is no such thing really.
Countries can interpret DTT differently, both claiming your tax residence based on a DTT.
Then you have MAP to sort it out, which can further end up in arbitration.
yeah it does not work like that. If a judge declares that your center of life and/or vital interests are still in your home country and rules in favour of the tax man then not a single tax treaty will protect you. There is a very thread going on in this sub of a German dude who moved to Switzerland and the German tax man want their piece of the pie, I can assure that there is not a single tax treaty that exists between Switzerland and Germany that will be of any︀ help when you are in this position.
If you have treaty protection there is nothing they can do in the end.
Like I said I am not saying they won't try taxing you but if you have︁ treaty protection you will win the case in the end.
If you have a permanent home in your new country and not️ in your home country and stay 183 days in your new country of residence you have treaty protection.
The 183 is not up for discussion, that is something you can prove very easily, you either stayed there 183 days or not. The permanent home is also pretty straight forward.
If those two apply to you you don't even have to worry about cvi, nationality etc. Your home country can claim all they want but it won't stand in court.
Like I said before I am not saying they won't try to tax you, but if you have treaty protection it always overrides local law.
Like I said I am not saying they won't try taxing you but if you have︁ treaty protection you will win the case in the end.
If you have a permanent home in your new country and not️ in your home country and stay 183 days in your new country of residence you have treaty protection.
The 183 is not up for discussion, that is something you can prove very easily, you either stayed there 183 days or not. The permanent home is also pretty straight forward.
If those two apply to you you don't even have to worry about cvi, nationality etc. Your home country can claim all they want but it won't stand in court.
Like I said before I am not saying they won't try to tax you, but if you have treaty protection it always overrides local law.
This is simply︂ not true! Do you think that UAE will come to your defense with the "treat"︃ if a European court slaps your for tax evasion. The high tax countries don't give︄ a f*****k about the 183 days rule. vital interests and center of life are the︅ most important criteria. The link I provided showed hundreds of cases of Belgian people who︆ were renting expensive homes in freaking Monaco and still got hit by the Belgian tax︇ man because this was considered a fake tax residence because their real life was in︈ Belgium even if they were in Belgium less then 183 days. I can guarantee you︉ that in any of the high tax countries where they use these criteria, you will︊ be dragged into court and you will lose 99% of the time if they find︋ out that you are staying 182 days in your high tax home country while you︌ have tax residence in Dubai.
I think this is a︃ bad idea.
1. Yes you can do it. In theory. But then you wouldn't have︄ to care about 182 days. You could just stay as long as you like. Because︅ if they catch you, they might argue that you stayed much longer. I did a︆ post, where even where I stayed and documented less than 100 days a year -︇ It may mean trouble. Depends on the country. Also by the way, I do not︈ think it is a good way to live. Staying in a home of relatives and︉ so on, works only on short time.
2. Depends on your country. But I would︊ say if you stay 182 days in Germany and 94 days in Dubai, Germany would︋ try to tax you. I'm not an expert, but sounds like you would like to︌ live in europe and pay taxes in UAE. Not sure if this is a good︍ idea, especially since, they would have the information when you crossed the border and so︎ on.
3. Returning after 10 years. Actually I would say you should be fine. Like️ after 10 years. Who cares. Nobody would be able to prove anything. But of course if the amounts are high, they might take a detailed look.
Again the "problem" with your plan is: you do not know what happens in 10 years. Maybe they change to rules or change the procedure how things are checked. Like they might just ask, where have you been the last 3 years and then you might get into some trouble.
1. Yes you can do it. In theory. But then you wouldn't have︄ to care about 182 days. You could just stay as long as you like. Because︅ if they catch you, they might argue that you stayed much longer. I did a︆ post, where even where I stayed and documented less than 100 days a year -︇ It may mean trouble. Depends on the country. Also by the way, I do not︈ think it is a good way to live. Staying in a home of relatives and︉ so on, works only on short time.
2. Depends on your country. But I would︊ say if you stay 182 days in Germany and 94 days in Dubai, Germany would︋ try to tax you. I'm not an expert, but sounds like you would like to︌ live in europe and pay taxes in UAE. Not sure if this is a good︍ idea, especially since, they would have the information when you crossed the border and so︎ on.
3. Returning after 10 years. Actually I would say you should be fine. Like️ after 10 years. Who cares. Nobody would be able to prove anything. But of course if the amounts are high, they might take a detailed look.
Again the "problem" with your plan is: you do not know what happens in 10 years. Maybe they change to rules or change the procedure how things are checked. Like they might just ask, where have you been the last 3 years and then you might get into some trouble.
One thing︄ to consider is the incentive the other State would have to protect your tax residence.︅ Ask yourself, would the jurisdiction get additional tax revenue if they could treat you as︆ its tax resident.
Why would anyone invest resources to gain nothing? Making you happy is︇ probably not sufficient motivation 🙂
Why would anyone invest resources to gain nothing? Making you happy is︇ probably not sufficient motivation 🙂
It has nothing to do with the other state.
It simply is true, it has nothing to do with the UAE.︉ I am not talking about a "183 day rule". I am talking about treaty protection.︊ You won't lose in court if you have treaty protection.
There is no tax treaty︋ between Belgium and Monaco, in this case the Belgium tax authorities can claim anything they︌ want, because you will not have treaty protection. Even if people actually resided in Monaco︍ the whole year you could still lose in court if they could find some ties.︎
It simply is true, it has nothing to do with the UAE.︉ I am not talking about a "183 day rule". I am talking about treaty protection.︊ You won't lose in court if you have treaty protection.
There is no tax treaty︋ between Belgium and Monaco, in this case the Belgium tax authorities can claim anything they︌ want, because you will not have treaty protection. Even if people actually resided in Monaco︍ the whole year you could still lose in court if they could find some ties.︎
This man︄ KNOWS! 😉
To the rest of you who think that some "paperwork" or treaty will save︅ you, I present to you: Thomas Quick: the Swedish serial killer who never was
Just one out of thousands (if not millions) of miscarriages of justice in Europe. It's just︆ that we are better at hiding/concealing it than our American counterparts. And also less inclined︇ to admit we've been wrong. 😉
Tax agencies are run by psychopaths & employ other psychopaths!︈ Who else would do a job that consists of "forcefully stealing what doesn't belong to︉ me and giving a portion of it to other gang members who are just like︊ me?" 🙄
Wait... Assume️ you both are correct here for a minute...
So, "Li 百万富翁" of China, a resident and citizen of China, purchases a home in Monaco where he spends 90 days. Furthermore, he also travels to Belgium once a year, rents an Airbnb for 90 days in Brussels, and then returns to China.
Are you all telling us that the Belgian tax authority can target "Li 百万富翁" for taxes or is this "targeting" limited ONLY to (former?) Belgian "citizens/residents"? 🙄
To the rest of you who think that some "paperwork" or treaty will save︅ you, I present to you: Thomas Quick: the Swedish serial killer who never was
Just one out of thousands (if not millions) of miscarriages of justice in Europe. It's just︆ that we are better at hiding/concealing it than our American counterparts. And also less inclined︇ to admit we've been wrong. 😉
Tax agencies are run by psychopaths & employ other psychopaths!︈ Who else would do a job that consists of "forcefully stealing what doesn't belong to︉ me and giving a portion of it to other gang members who are just like︊ me?" 🙄
Wait... Assume️ you both are correct here for a minute...
So, "Li 百万富翁" of China, a resident and citizen of China, purchases a home in Monaco where he spends 90 days. Furthermore, he also travels to Belgium once a year, rents an Airbnb for 90 days in Brussels, and then returns to China.
Are you all telling us that the Belgian tax authority can target "Li 百万富翁" for taxes or is this "targeting" limited ONLY to (former?) Belgian "citizens/residents"? 🙄
Read the frigging︀ post above you from the German guy, he has troubles and he stayed less then︁ 100 days in Germany and there is a DTT between Switzerland and Germany. This has︂ nothing to do with DTT and has everything to do with fiscal law and what︃ the criteria are to be considered a tax resident. Belgium, France, Netherlands, Germany, Spain and︄ other high tax countries don't give a f***k about the 183 day rule. In their︅ law the main criteria are substance, center of life / vital interest. If you stay︆ 49% of the time of the year in your home country while being a tax︇ resident in UAE and they find out, you will lose in court and there is︈ not a single DTT that will change that fact. Stop spreading this nonsense that the︉ 183 day rule is the holy grail. If it was that easy, every single European︊ freelancer working from behind a computer would be tax resident in UAE and enjoy that︋ sweet 0% tax.
The nonsense you read sometimes here is mind boggling. They can close the forums, we︃ have found the holy grail for not paying taxes, we all just get tax residence︄ in the UAE and make sure that we don't stay more then 182 days in︅ our high tax countries and the tax psychos will be happy
The nonsense you read sometimes here is mind boggling. They can close the forums, we︃ have found the holy grail for not paying taxes, we all just get tax residence︄ in the UAE and make sure that we don't stay more then 182 days in︅ our high tax countries and the tax psychos will be happy
If only life were that easy 🙂
At the same time, I've witnessed first-hand a person living more or less full-time in the country for ~10 years straight, but because his family is abroad, he is considered a tax resident abroad due to Center of︀ Vital interests.
Also, I know an example of a person who perpetually travelled between the︁ UK, Monaco, and another country for 15 years straight and got away as a non-tax︂ resident anywhere.
So, I would say this approach could work in some specific cases.
At the same time, I've witnessed first-hand a person living more or less full-time in the country for ~10 years straight, but because his family is abroad, he is considered a tax resident abroad due to Center of︀ Vital interests.
Also, I know an example of a person who perpetually travelled between the︁ UK, Monaco, and another country for 15 years straight and got away as a non-tax︂ resident anywhere.
So, I would say this approach could work in some specific cases.
We are talking about UAE, they have zero incentive to protect you because you are not paying taxes anyway. What boggles my mind that there are still people who think having a tax residence in low tax country A even with a tax certificate of said country will protect︀ them from claims from high tax home country B if that country decides that according︁ to their laws you are a tax resident. I went to a highly regarded international︂ tax advisor in Belgium and he advised me 100% NOT to do what is advised︃ here (basically fake tax residence) unless you want to be in a world of pain.︄ It is the first thing they investigate if you move to Monaco, UAE, ...
agreed in some specific cases where you can fly under the radar. Staying︊ 182 days in your home country close to family, friends, ... is not such a︋ corner case. I don't get this obsession for paying zero taxes. Move to frigging Bulgaria,︌ pay your little taxes, lay low for the first year and then travel within the︍ EU to the places you want to be, take some precautions and nobody will care.︎ I stayed for extended periods in Spain, Portugal, Greece hopping from Airbnb to other rental️ places and never got a tax letter from Spain, Portugal, Greece. There are less stressfull solutions for living a good lifestyle then having basically a fake tax residency in UAE. If you move to these countries you are painting a big bullseye on your back for the forseeable future so you better do it right or get burned.
agreed in some specific cases where you can fly under the radar. Staying︊ 182 days in your home country close to family, friends, ... is not such a︋ corner case. I don't get this obsession for paying zero taxes. Move to frigging Bulgaria,︌ pay your little taxes, lay low for the first year and then travel within the︍ EU to the places you want to be, take some precautions and nobody will care.︎ I stayed for extended periods in Spain, Portugal, Greece hopping from Airbnb to other rental️ places and never got a tax letter from Spain, Portugal, Greece. There are less stressfull solutions for living a good lifestyle then having basically a fake tax residency in UAE. If you move to these countries you are painting a big bullseye on your back for the forseeable future so you better do it right or get burned.
What many people do is have just UAE residence card and live in Europe (not their home country).
Actually nobody is interested in you unless you are registered in population registrar or have job
If you just spend money, you are just a tourist. However, I would not advise this for high profile persons. Who get lot of attention from their home countries etc. It just for small people.
Most people I know with UAE residence in reality live in South Europe and visit UAE just to renew visa. They usually avoid trouble because they are low key. But I would not advise this.
Actually nobody is interested in you unless you are registered in population registrar or have job
If you just spend money, you are just a tourist. However, I would not advise this for high profile persons. Who get lot of attention from their home countries etc. It just for small people.
Most people I know with UAE residence in reality live in South Europe and visit UAE just to renew visa. They usually avoid trouble because they are low key. But I would not advise this.
What a childish way of admitting you are︉ wrong, no need to get emmotional 😉 The defenition of a forum is a place where︊ people can discuss their ideas and opinions, you don't have to agree with everyone.
For some reason you seem to avoid responding to all my arguments? Are you just not︋ reading it or not capable enough to understand?
Just because there is DTT doesn't mean︌ you have treaty protection... But your whole opinion now is based on this thread from︍ this German guy? (Who knows if he is telling the truth), because I just countered︎ your Belgian/Monaco argument. As far as I can read the German tax authorities are only️ challenging him for the "swiss taxes" in the year of immigration to Switzerland, with a very big likely hood of him not having treaty protection that year since 2M was earned in GER and 1M in Swiss according to him. Why aren't they going after him for the other years he lived in Switzerland? Maybe because they see that their chances are basically zero because he has treaty protection in the following years. But just because the German tax authorities claim something it doesn't mean they are right, but since I assume he doesn't have treaty protection in the year of immigration, that year it︀ will come down to local fiscal law.
And for some reason you keep putting words︁ in my mouth about this "183 day rule". I completely agree with you that there︂ isn't such a thing as a "183 day rule", please stop putting words in my︃ mouth.
I'm not sure if you are aware but the UAE has recently introduced a︄ 9% corporate tax, it's not "zero tax" anymore for people running an active business from︅ the UAE. As well in the tax treaty UAE/Netherlands for example treaty benefits can only︆ be granted to UAE CITIZENS, so as a Dutch citizen you are never able to︇ get treaty protection anyways.
For some reason you seem to avoid responding to all my arguments? Are you just not︋ reading it or not capable enough to understand?
Just because there is DTT doesn't mean︌ you have treaty protection... But your whole opinion now is based on this thread from︍ this German guy? (Who knows if he is telling the truth), because I just countered︎ your Belgian/Monaco argument. As far as I can read the German tax authorities are only️ challenging him for the "swiss taxes" in the year of immigration to Switzerland, with a very big likely hood of him not having treaty protection that year since 2M was earned in GER and 1M in Swiss according to him. Why aren't they going after him for the other years he lived in Switzerland? Maybe because they see that their chances are basically zero because he has treaty protection in the following years. But just because the German tax authorities claim something it doesn't mean they are right, but since I assume he doesn't have treaty protection in the year of immigration, that year it︀ will come down to local fiscal law.
And for some reason you keep putting words︁ in my mouth about this "183 day rule". I completely agree with you that there︂ isn't such a thing as a "183 day rule", please stop putting words in my︃ mouth.
I'm not sure if you are aware but the UAE has recently introduced a︄ 9% corporate tax, it's not "zero tax" anymore for people running an active business from︅ the UAE. As well in the tax treaty UAE/Netherlands for example treaty benefits can only︆ be granted to UAE CITIZENS, so as a Dutch citizen you are never able to︇ get treaty protection anyways.
The OP wants UAE tax residence while living in his home country for 182 days as a "tourist", it is literally in his opening post, maybe you should stick to the subject instead of posting stuff that has zero relevance to what the OP was asking? Now you are going on ignore status, ciao ciao
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