Question Passport Concerns as a Ukrainian in EU

[SSV]

@Martin Everson , Ukrainian law doesn't explicitly forbid dual citizenship. Officially, the rules around it are somewhat unclear; however, in practice, many Ukrainians hold a second citizenship and, to my knowledge, there haven't been any criminal prosecutions for this.

Regarding the Caribbean Citizenship by Investment (CBI) program, based on what I've gathered:

1. It's legitimate and not a scam.
2. The likelihood of such a passport being revoked is low, unless you find yourself on an Interpol list.
3. These passports are not highly regarded, and they might not facilitate an extension of residency in countries like Cyprus.
4. The only granted benefit is the option to relocate to the Caribbean and enjoy the third world life until retirement.

Thanks to everyone who supported my viewpoint. I ask to not over-dramatizes my situation; in Ukraine, there are always ways to "sort problems out."

After all, I could burn Ukrainian passport and, like Aphrodite, arrive on the shores of Cyprus with nothing, ready to start anew as a refugee along with hundreds of Arab and Palestinian poor fellows 🙂

@jafo, I appreciate your suggestion; it could be helpful as well.

Last edited: May 3, 2024

 

[jafo]

SSV said:
After all, I could burn this passport and, like Aphrodite, arrive on the shores of Cyprus with nothing, ready to start anew as a refugee along with hundreds of Arab and Palestinian poor fellows 🙂
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😉 😎

 

[Forester]

SSV said:
I could burn Ukrainian passport and, like Aphrodite, arrive on the shores of Cyprus with nothing, ready to start anew as a refugee along with hundreds of Arab and Palestinian poor fellows 🙂
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In my opinion, burning a UA pasport is even unnecessary; you can keep it as a proof of identity, just for the case.
Take into account that according to all European regulations regarding human rights, you cannot be extradited or forcibly sent from a safe European country to a country where your life is in danger ”“ in Ukraine, definitely it is. So you can, in fact, stay at Cyprus (or anywhere in EU) until the end of the war with a (relative) peace in mind. If this benefit can be enjoyed by Somali pirates (staying in Germany for e.g. 10 years) or Syrian men convicted of a mass rape, it can definitely be enjoyed by you ”“ and your fellows.

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I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

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[JohnnyDoe]

Forester said:
European regulations regarding human rights
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As one of the many examples of how the EU takes human rights into consideration, see Latvian non-citizens.
Do not trust the EU, ever.

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[mraleph]

JohnnyDoe said:
As one of the many examples of how the EU takes human rights into consideration, see Latvian non-citizens.
Do not trust the EU, ever.
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Similar case in Slovenia with deleted citizens. It was a big deal before they entered EU, but it was somehow partialy resolved.

In former USSR baltic republic cases, it's high politics - russians that can influence goverment thru elections if they (re)acquire citizen rights. We can assume what may happen if pro-Russian governments are installed in those countries.

 

[Forester]

JohnnyDoe said:
As one of the many examples of how the EU takes human rights into consideration, see Latvian non-citizens.
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It is off-topic; yet I think a short note is acceptable: Although formally off-topic, thank you for pointing at this. I am fully aware of it and I consider it totally unacceptable; the fact that Latvia was despite of this accepted as the EU member is, in my deep opinion, the total shame.

JohnnyDoe said:
Do not trust the EU, ever.
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In general, agreeing at 100%, unfortunately. (Fortunately, the @SSV's case would be processed by a CY court, not by EU.)

mraleph said:
Similar case in Slovenia with deleted citizens. It was a big deal before they entered EU, but it was somehow partialy resolved.
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Wow. I admit that I have no clue about this. Would you mind sharing just some link to the explanation? (Do not go off-topic, please.)

mraleph said:
In former USSR baltic republic cases, it's high politics - russians that can influence goverment thru elections if they (re)acquire citizen rights.
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So what?? Are they second-class inhabitants?? (Untermenschen, as it was, unfortunately, quite popular /not common!/ in Baltics ~70 years ago?)

mraleph said:
We can assume what may happen if pro-Russian governments are installed in those countries.
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This is not a business for anyone outside, what government some people freely decided for, anywhere in the world...

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I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[mraleph]

Forester said:
Wow. I admit that I have no clue about this. Would you mind sharing just some link to the explanation? (Do not go off-topic, please.)
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Start from here

https://www.coe.int/et/web/commissi...o-the-erased-is-a-welcome-and-meaningful-step

Forester said:
So what?? Are they second-class inhabitants?? (Untermenschen, as it was, unfortunately, quite popular /not common!/ in Baltics ~70 years ago?)

This is not a business for anyone outside, what government some people freely decided for, anywhere in the world...
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This is not a place to discuss it and I will be neutral. I do not support nor condone any kind of fascism, nazism and other form of extremism. Though, it's a fact that if russian speaking people were politicaly organized, all three Baltic republics would be Russian dolls in EU and NATO. Hence, it's a simple and cruel political game with horor human consequences.

 

[Forester]

mraleph said:
Start from here

https://www.coe.int/et/web/commissi...o-the-erased-is-a-welcome-and-meaningful-step
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Thank you. I went quickly to (referred there) case Kurić and others v. Slovenia and its judgements, which have given me (as a person somehow familiar with law and judicial matters) quite a good insight to this regretable issue.

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[Henn and Rich]

CBIs are becoming more and more of a headache. In response to U.S. regulatory pressures, four out of the five Caribbean CBI countries, have signed an MoU where effective June 30th, 2024, this agreement will result in a doubling of the respective donation amounts required for citizenship. As a result, the cost of Caribbean citizenship will effectively double as of July 🙁

The old timeframe of up to 5-6 months is gone now, and you are looking at up to a year to be issued a passport. DD remains more or less the same, but the respective govts. of the CBI countries definitely ask way more questions today than yesterday and ask for way more supporting documents than before.

On top of that they are already losing visa access to the UK (Antigua), and soon enough by I believe 2025 they will all be on this ETIAS list to travel to EU (if EU doesn't suspend visa-free beforehand..)

Approx. $150k for a brand new passport to just keep in your back pocket makes all the sense for many of today's global elite. It might come in handy, it might not. The cost of a new Benz for a sovereign country's citizenship is not that much. But when we are starting to talk about $250k starting price for the same passport... even I start to tell to client's maybe it's not worth it ns2


Regarding OP, before you spend $$$ on a new CBI passport, I would first try to take a portion of that money and fix things internal the "Ukrainian way" i.e. money in an envelope to the right person. I know personally of someone that is an ex-officer in the Ukrainian army, super healthy and of fighting age, but alas he has an invalid card - and he continues to live in Kiev, with no repercussions.


In regards to CBI and KYC, initially the Ukrainians were up there on the naughty list with Russians/Belarussians, but most CBIs have relaxed this for Ukrainians and a simple affidavit stating why you cannot get said police reports from MVS Ukraine is usually sufficient enough. Couple that with a foreign residency and PCC from there - you are golden... usually....

Last edited: May 7, 2024

 

[Forester]

Henn and Rich said:
In response to U.S. regulatory pressures, four out of the five Caribbean CBI countries, have signed an MOA where effective June 30th, 2024, this agreement will result in a doubling of the respective donation amounts required for citizenship. As a result, the cost of Caribbean citizenship will effectively double as of July 🙁
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Just out of curiosity, would you mind sharing what countries have signed the agreement and what single one has not?
And in addition, what is the agreement mentioned all about ”“ a plain link somewhere will suffice, of course...

A side-note: To the best of my knowledge, CBI programs are not only in Caribbean. @Henn and Rich, are you similarly knowledgeable re: another countries?

Henn and Rich said:
Regarding OP, before you spend $$$ on a new CBI passport, I would first try to take a portion of that money and fix things internal the "Ukrainian way" i.e. money in an envelope to the right person. I know personally of someone that is an ex-officer in the Ukrainian army, super healthy and of fighting age, but alas he has an invalid card - and he continues to live in Kiev, with no repercussions.
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I agree at 100% 😉

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I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[Henn and Rich]

Forester said:
Just out of curiosity, would you mind sharing what countries have signed the agreement and what single one has not?
And in addition, what is the agreement mentioned all about ”“ a plain link somewhere will suffice, of course...
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certainly - Four Caribbean CBI nations reach historic agreement for enhanced integrity

Antigua, St Kitts, Grenada & Dominica have all signed. Only St Lucia has not yet signed up on this. If they don't sign that would be great for them as they can undercut the pricing of the other 4 and reel in majority of clients to them. I don't think they will be able to hold out much longer with out signing but maybe the first couple months once it takes affect, they can use it a marketing push to get as many clients in before signing up.

Forester said:
A side-note: To the best of my knowledge, CBI programs are not only in Caribbean. @Henn and Rich, are you similarly knowledgeable re: another countries?
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Theres 8 real legal CBI programs around the world - 5 in the Caribbean, Malta in EU, Turkey and Vanuatu in the pacific.

Turkey has hiked up their price up to $600,000 min investment into only real estate from the previous $250,000. Investing $600,000 into approved real estate into an economy like the Turkish, with it's lira super volatile for a Turkish passport, seems not worth it. Developers know they are sellling to CBI clients so they hike their per sqft price in comparison to the market.

Malta is great to get an EU passport, but it's very expensive where you are looking at close to EUR 1m for citizenship over 13-14 months. But Malta is smart, the EU chases them to close down their program. They reach max capacity with 1 program, then they shut it down, just to rename it as a new program few months later, and then the EU gets to work to shut down that program as well lol. KYC in Malta is up the a*s, where you have to disclose holdings and assets even your wife doesn't know about. Rumor has is it that there is two ex-FBI guys sitting in Malta running the DD for the program..

Vanuatu was a great program some years ago due it's super fast process of up to 3 months only, very minimal KYC/DD and access to EU schengen zone. Then EU some years back told them to clean up their DD process or they will loose schengen access, which they did end up losing. They were in the process of cleaning up their act to get it reinstated, just when the Russo-Ukr war broke out, and they decided to F eu access to keep Russians applying for Vanuatu as the other CBIs would soon ban them from applying. Fast forward today, the PM released a memo last Novemeber saying they will never ban Russians from Vanuatu, which basically means they killed off any chances for EU access again.

I was always trying to lobby to Vanuatu that they should decrease their pricing to stay competitive in lieu of EU access when compared to other programs. Now with the Caribbeans set to double, Vanuatu will remain very attractive even without it's EU access.

 

[jafo]

Henn and Rich said:
Vanuatu
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I would take Vanuatu and live there for the rest of my existence ANY TIME over having my neck pinned down by the Russian Bear Killing Machine boots. No "piece of paper with colorful ink relabeled as a European passport" can change my mind! ca#"!

 

[Henn and Rich]

jafo said:
I would take Vanuatu and live there for the rest of my existence ANY TIME over having my neck pinned down by the Russian Bear Killing Machine boots. No "piece of paper with colorful ink relabeled as a European passport" can change my mind! ca#"!
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I mean they are voted the happiest nation on earth on numerous occasions so why not, and they don't work either. They just sit around relaxing all day drinking kava and getting high 😛

 

[Konstanz]

SSV said:
Hello everyone,

I've been a silent reader for many years, gaining valuable insights into banking, EMI, and cryptocurrency from this community. Today, circumstances compel me to seek your guidance.

As a Ukrainian citizen legally residing and conducting a small business in Cyprus, I'm currently facing a significant challenge. Ukraine has suspended consular services for military-age men, which includes the reissuing of foreign passports. There's a looming concern that, by the end of the year, those of us who do not return might face negative implications on our police clearance certificates and even the possibility of passport revocation. Furthermore, I am concerned that this situation could persist for decades, impacting long-term plans and stability.

Given these concerns, I am exploring ways to mitigate these potential repercussions so that I can continue living peacefully on the island with my family and maintain my business operations. All I need is to present valid ID to the migration unit once every year or two when applying for the next residence permit.

In this context, I am particularly considering the Citizenship by Investment (CBI) programs offered in the Caribbean. Obtaining a passport from a Caribbean state would allow me to officially inform authorities of my change in citizenship and continue using the new ID for all legal and business purposes here. Would pursuing this be a prudent step?

I would appreciate any insights or advice you could provide based on your experiences or knowledge.
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I think most fast and cheap CBI would be Vanuatu passport.
With Vanuatu passport you can get Dubai residence and also you don't need visa for example to go to Singapore.
Even they lost Schengen Vanuatu passport is still one of the best option I think.
I think you can also get residence in Cyprus with Vanuatu passport not so hard.

But for any CBI you will need police clearance certificate from Ukraine

 

[Henn and Rich]

Konstanz said:
I think most fast and cheap CBI would be Vanuatu passport.
With Vanuatu passport you can get Dubai residence and also you don't need visa for example to go to Singapore.
Even they lost Schengen Vanuatu passport is still one of the best option I think.
I think you can also get residence in Cyprus with Vanuatu passport not so hard.
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Vanuatu is not the cheapest, the cheapest would be Dominica or St Lucia, but you need to wait up to a year or more. In terms of speed - for sure Vanuatu is the fastest, and easiest to obtain in terms of KYC documentation.

Konstanz said:
But for any CBI you will need police clearance certificate from Ukraine
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Not necessarily, if you reside elsewhere - a simple affidavit attesting to the fact why you cannot obtain one from Ukraine is usually sufficient enough. I've had similar cases with Cuba, Ukraine, Russia, Mauritius

 

[Konstanz]

Henn and Rich said:
Vanuatu is not the cheapest, the cheapest would be Dominica or St Lucia, but you need to wait up to a year or more. In terms of speed - for sure Vanuatu is the fastest, and easiest to obtain in terms of KYC documentation.


Not necessarily, if you reside elsewhere - a simple affidavit attesting to the fact why you cannot obtain one from Ukraine is usually sufficient enough. I've had similar cases with Cuba, Ukraine, Russia, Mauritius
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I agree.

Also he can still live in Cyprus with Ukrainian passport

If things change he will have additional functional citizenship to live with

 

[Henn and Rich]

Konstanz said:
Also he can still live in Cyprus with Ukrainian passport

If things change he will have additional functional citizenship to live with
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I still think OP's best scenario is to hand someone a nice envelope in Ukraine and get an invalid pass or whatever exempting him from the troubles mentioned above.

For sure cheaper than forking out $100k+ on a new passport. Your dollars run further in Ukraine than a CBI passport, or maybe not anymore I heard they are all millionaires now in Ukraine from US tax payer money ns2

 

[Konstanz]

Henn and Rich said:
I still think OP's best scenario is to hand someone a nice envelope in Ukraine and get an invalid pass or whatever exempting him from the troubles mentioned above.

For sure cheaper than forking out $100k+ on a new passport. Your dollars run further in Ukraine than a CBI passport, or maybe not anymore I heard they are all millionaires now in Ukraine from US tax payer money ns2
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Maybe. I don't think it's as simple as that these days

CBI is guarantee and legal way to avoid this trouble

 

[SSV]

@Henn and Rich, thank you for your detailed explanation. I have already reached out to you by email.

As for my background, I have no criminal record so far. Currently, Ukraine is only considering legal changes that would criminalize draft dodging.

For sure, the optimal solution would be to obtain a medical exemption from military duty, but this requires being physically present in Ukraine during the "examination", which isn't feasible for me.

Additionally, I have two sons, with the older one being 1.5 years away from military age. Therefore, I'm exploring CBI as a potential safeguard for them as well.