Bank Account without EU banking info?

[Scratch]

Hi,

I'm interested in knowing whether the Mentor Group Gold section of the forum has information in regards to how to open a bank account in an EU country, without being a resident in that country (meaning without having a utility bill/employment/rental contract)?

I would like to join the group and participate, but not sure about the available information.

Thanks!

 

[Forester]

tes100 said:
information in regards to how to open a bank account in an EU country, without being a resident in that country (meaning without having a utility bill/employment/rental contract)?
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1) If you search through the publicly available threads, you will find a lot of useful information re: this matter, IMO. (BTW, the answer heavily depends on your current residence, citizenship, amount of money that you can put at the banker's table etc. etc.) You can also ask for further clarification.
2) If the result of (1) do not satisfy you, then Mentor Group is the proper place to ask further questions.

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[Scratch]

Forester said:
1) If you search through the publicly available threads, you will find a lot of useful information re: this matter, IMO. (BTW, the answer heavily depends on your current residence, citizenship, amount of money that you can put at the banker's table etc. etc.) You can also ask for further clarification.
2) If the result of (1) do not satisfy you, then Mentor Group is the proper place to ask further questions.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply!

I did search and read a lot, but eventually, I come to the conclusion that all bank accounts require a document that ties you to that country... I do not understand why "non resident" bank accounts exise, when banks de facto require you to be a partial resident in order to pen a non-resident account.

My case is that I live in a non-CRS country (with low taxes, one of the smallest countries in the world) and work remotely as a developer. I need a bank account, anywhere in Europe, as that's a requirement for one of my clients to pay the salary, nothing huge, around 10k EUR a month.

An EMI might be even better, but I was rejected from Wise, Bankera and Wittix because of my country of residence. Payoneer did accept me, but I would not like to trust them with my money due to the horror stories of banning people and freezing funds. Perhaps there are more trusted EMIs that work with people outside the EU/EEA?

Otherwise, I've been to four countries trying to open a bank account, most recently even to Serbia, and got denied because of not having a temporary residence permit. I explained my situation and offered to deposit large sums (I would have over 100k before the end of the year from the salaries), to use the account only for salary, it didn't help.

 

[Forester]

tes100 said:
I come to the conclusion that all bank accounts require a document that ties you to that country...
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No, generally it is not so.

tes100 said:
My case is that I live in a non-CRS country (with low taxes, one of the smallest countries in the world)
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This can be a problem, see below.

tes100 said:
and work remotely as a developer. I need a bank account, anywhere in Europe, as that's a requirement for one of my clients to pay the salary, nothing huge, around 10k EUR a month.
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Salary? Do you work as an employee? (I doubt, I guess you are a contractor ”“ so the client would pay your invoices; but please confirm.)

tes100 said:
An EMI might be even better, but I was rejected from Wise, Bankera and Wittix because of my country of residence. Payoneer did accept me, but I would not like to trust them with my money due to the horror stories of banning people and freezing funds. Perhaps there are more trusted EMIs that work with people outside the EU/EEA?

Otherwise, I've been to four countries trying to open a bank account, most recently even to Serbia, and got denied because of not having a temporary residence permit. I explained my situation and offered to deposit large sums (I would have over 100k before the end of the year from the salaries), to use the account only for salary, it didn't help.
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100k is not a large sum if it concerns banking; but of course not negligible.
Without knowing your country of residence and current citizenship it is practically impossible to give a more detailed advice; share it.
The information about the country where your european client is located will also help.

Last edited: Oct 20, 2022
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[JohnLocke]

I changed the title of the thread to the relevant topic discussed here.

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[Scratch]

Forester said:
Salary? Do you work as an employee? (I doubt, I guess you are a contractor ”“ so the client would pay your invoices; but please confirm.)
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Correct, I meant to write invoices as I'm a contractor.

Forester said:
100k is not a large sum if it concerns banking; but of course not negligible.
Without knowing your country of residence and current citizenship it is practically impossible to give a more detailed advice; share it.
The information about the country where your european client is located will also help.
Click to expand...

I have a Bosnian citizenship, and the client is from Switzerland.

Would you have suggestions around my issue? Any EMI that's stable and trusted? Or a banking solution? It can also be outside the EU, as long as it's in Europe and EUR-denominated.

 

[Forester]

tes100 said:
Correct, I meant to write invoices as I'm a contractor.
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OK, it means you need a business account, in fact. Or a personal account with an institution that does not care so much. It can complicate the issue a little bit.

tes100 said:
I have a Bosnian citizenship,
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Well, Bosnian passport it not of the worsest, luckily.

tes100 said:
and the client is from Switzerland.
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So you can prove some ties to Switzerland. Perfect.

tes100 said:
Would you have suggestions around my issue? Any EMI that's stable and trusted? Or a banking solution?
Click to expand...

I am missing the info about your current residence ”“ where do you live. (Not all residences are supported by all banks/EMIs.)

tes100 said:
It can also be outside the EU, as long as it's in Europe and EUR-denominated.
Click to expand...

BTW, this Swiss client really insists on paying you in EU (i.e. not in CHF) and to an Europe-located account? A little bit strange; but why not...

Last edited: Oct 21, 2022
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[Scratch]

Forester said:
OK, it means you need a business account, in fact. Or a personal account with an institution that does not care so much. It can complicate the issue a little bit.
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I invoice without a company at the moment, would that be a problem? Not sure why I wouldn't be able to invoice with a personal account?

Forester said:
Well, Bosnian passport it not of the worsest, luckily.

So you can prove some ties to Switzerland. Perfect.
Click to expand...

Does that mean I can open a Swiss bank account? I'm supposed to go there sometime around January 2023 to visit the HQ. But wouldn't then my Swiss sourced income be subject to Swiss taxation?

Forester said:
I am missing the info about your current residence ”“ where do you live. (Not all residences are supported by all banks/EMIs.)

BTW, this Swiss client really insists on paying you in EU (i.e. not in CHF) and to an Europe-located account? A little bit strange; but why not...
Click to expand...

I live in Bosnia as a residence. I do think the client can pay in CHF as well, just that the contract is in EUR, I guess they do that for all contractors, but I imagine I can ask them to change to CHF if needed. The problem is, they are related to crypto (although my salary/invoices are normal developer ones and not related to crypto/exchanges/finance), and Payoneer lists those transactions as prohibited, and my bank may also cause problems down the line, so I'm looking to switch to a better EMI/bank/country, but without losing the tax residence status I currently have.

I talked with Wittix, and they said it's okay to receive the invoices there as they are not crypto-related, but then rejected me based on residence. I think Payoneer could also work, but they have terrible customer support, so I'll probably not have anyone to talk to once my funds get frozen.

 

[Forester]

tes100 said:
I invoice without a company at the moment, would that be a problem?
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It depends on the laws of Bosnia (where you reside) but generally, perhaps everywhere you can work as a freelancer, i.e. without company. But maybe you have to register somehow ”“ I do not know. Consult a local lawyer if you want to avoid later problems with taxmen etc.

tes100 said:
Not sure why I wouldn't be able to invoice with a personal account?
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It depends on the Terms of Service of the bank you have an account with; that are heavily dependent on a jurisdiction of the bank. Almost never it is possible to use a personal account for accepting invoices issued by company; sometimes you can use the same account as a freelancer and as a non-business person, sometimes not. It is very recommendable to check it beforehand, to avoid evt. account freezing and suspension.

tes100 said:
Does that mean I can open a Swiss bank account?
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Yes, very probably; but see below.

tes100 said:
But wouldn't then my Swiss sourced income be subject to Swiss taxation?
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Why? You are not a tax resident of Switzerland. But as taxing is concerned, it is always worth consulting a tax advisor or a lawyer. For every personal case can be subtle differences, at least in theory.

tes100 said:
I live in Bosnia as a residence.
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OK.

tes100 said:
The problem is, they are related to crypto (although my salary/invoices are normal developer ones and not related to crypto/exchanges/finance), and Payoneer lists those transactions as prohibited, and my bank may also cause problems down the line,
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Oh well. This is clear. Generally, the most straighforward way for you would be to use a local Bosnian account but I can imagine that payments from a crypto-related company can cause problems; I understand your fears.

tes100 said:
so I'm looking to switch to a better EMI/bank/country, but without losing the tax residence status I currently have.
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Understandable.
Fortunately, I think you can find a Swiss bank that can onboard you because you need to obtain long-term payments from a Swiss company. My first shot would be CIM Banque. I must admit I do not know how they are (generally) with crypto but I consider it worth trying, you just work as a developer for a crypto-related company that I presume being legal and in-line with laws (if not, you are facing a general problem). Contact them (CIM Banque) and tell them that you are a freelancer working for a Swiss company that wants to pay you locally in Switzerland (check it with the company before but I cannot imagine they can object ”“ if they are legal). If your background is non-problematic (clean criminal record etc.) I think your chances are quite good. IIRC, CIM Banque wanted a first deposit ~(5 or 10) 000 CHF for a business account; I do not know how with freelancers but generally it is not horrible. If it fails, you can try Dukascopy, eventually Swissquote of Flowbank ”“ but the latter (SQ and FB) are basically designed as trading platforms, not retail banks, so they might want you to trade something from time to time; but they are definitely crypto-environment friendly.

tes100 said:
I talked with Wittix, and they said it's okay to receive the invoices there as they are not crypto-related, but then rejected me based on residence.
Click to expand...

I consider some LT EMI as Wittix to be something as the last (and not a very good one) chance in your case.

P.S.
If you can offer a personal visit in the (Swiss) bank, it can help.

Last edited: Oct 21, 2022
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If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[Scratch]

Thanks @Forester, this is the best advice I've seen yet on the forum! I'll contact those banks, and I'll ask about documents, so it can improve my chances when visiting in person.

Btw, if I open a bank account with my contractor deal, does that mean the bank account duration is limited? Like the company can close it a few years later if I stop working? Not sure also if a bank account opened with a temporary residence is also limited in how long is lasts?

Forester said:
Why? You are not a tax resident of Switzerland. But as taxing is concerned, it is always worth consulting a tax advisor or a lawyer. For every personal case can be subtle differences, at least in theory.
Click to expand...

I do remember reading about other countries, like Greece and Czechia, that they tax locally sourced income the same for non-residents as they do for residents. I'll check about Switzerland though.

Forester said:
I consider some LT EMI as Wittix to be something as the last (and not a very good one) chance in your case.
Click to expand...

Do you know other LT EMIs apart from Wittix that have personal accounts? I found some on Google and research a bit the forums, but not sure which are trusted, as a few seem to have been registered in the past 2 years. Perhaps I can risk it or have a call with them I guess...

Last edited: Oct 21, 2022

 

[Forester]

tes100 said:
Thanks @Forester,
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You are welcome.

tes100 said:
this is the best advice I've seen yet on the forum!
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Well, I do not think that this is something extraordinary. Perhaps you should have searched better 😉 😉. Nevertheless, thank you for the compliment; I appreciate it a lot.

tes100 said:
I'll contact those banks, and I'll ask about documents, so it can improve my chances when visiting in person.
Click to expand...

Just a remark: Dukascopy, Swissquote and Flowbank are fully adopted to an on-line account opening, they perhaps even do not expect someone to show in person (altough it is probably possible).

tes100 said:
Btw, if I open a bank account with my contractor deal, does that mean the bank account duration is limited?
Click to expand...

No.

tes100 said:
Like the company can close it a few years later if I stop working?
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The company? They have no way to do it. Regarding to bank ”“ well, if you are in a good standing with them and they are doing some business with you, they have no reason for suspending the account. They are making some money, so what? BTW, banks tend to be rather conservative, especially Swiss ones.

tes100 said:
Not sure also if a bank account opened with a temporary residence is also limited in how long is lasts?
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This depends fully on the bank (and local regulations). If they work with non-residents, see above, it's the same story. If they do not work with non-residents, they will terminate the account when a residency permit expires. Pretty simple.

tes100 said:
I do remember reading about other countries, like Greece and Czechia, that they tax locally sourced income the same for non-residents as they do for residents. I'll check about Switzerland though.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is worth checking in any case. Just be advised that the result is not dependent of a fact where you have a bank account.

tes100 said:
Do you know other LT EMIs apart from Wittix that have personal accounts? I found some on Google and research a bit the forums, but not sure which are trusted, as a few seem to have been registered in the past 2 years.
Click to expand...

There is plenty of them. LT, together with the U.K., is one of two the most EMI-friendly countries in Europe, with ~70 EMIs. See here https://thebanks.eu/list-of-emis/Lithuania. And you can find a lot of opinion on them here at forums.
Just two remarks:
1) I am convinced that any LT EMI is worse than a Swiss bank for your use-case.
2) Do not forget that you need a freelancers/business account and not a personal one, especially with a LT EMI. Otherwise you will be finished when you obtain the first payment and when asked for a reason for payment / source of funds you show the invoice. (Bottom line: as for LT EMIs, there is usually a different pricing for personal and business accounts, the latter being much more expensive. And nobody is happy if you pay him differently than you should.)

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I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[Scratch]

Quick update @Forester, I'm talking with a bunch of companies and there are a few options.

While I'm weighing options, wanted to ask, do you know if an EMI like Payoneer can know that my invoice payments are coming from a company that is related to crypto? Most EMIs seem to want to sell my the most expensive account types due to getting my salary from a crypto payment, but I'm not even sure if my transactions are classified as crypto-related or high risk. Cheers!

 

[Spinat]

tes100 said:
While I'm weighing options, wanted to ask, do you know if an EMI like Payoneer can know that my invoice payments are coming from a company that is related to crypto?
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if the company has nothing about that public they can't know that!

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[Forester]

Spinat said:
if the company has nothing about that public they can't know that!
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That's it, exactly. During the KYC process you will be 99% asked, who are your customers; and for some invoices. If this company has a neutral name, nothing related to crypto at their webpages and the invoice is for C coding (n mandays), you (@tes100) are safe. If they are named Blockchain Solutions S.A. and/or their webpage promotes their advanced crypto solutions, you are not safe.

tes100 said:
Most EMIs seem to want to sell my the most expensive account types due to getting my salary from a crypto payment,
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The majority of EMIs and banks is money-hungry. Get used to it ;(

tes100 said:
but I'm not even sure if my transactions are classified as crypto-related or high risk.
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And frankly, crypto-related business (coding included), is a high-risk, generally. (Take into account that you must take e.g. selling groceries for comparison.)

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If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[pedromaldonado]

Can you travel to Georgia? It seems you can open a bank account in that country easily. You can even do it remotely (previous payment to a third party)

 

[Spinat]

pedromaldonado said:
Can you travel to Georgia? It seems you can open a bank account in that country easily. You can even do it remotely (previous payment to a third party)
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not sure how you will do that remotely without to give a PoA to someone that you can't trust long term.

We had a few users around in the past @Jonny Cage for one of them that do company and banking there.

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[pedromaldonado]

Spinat said:
not sure how you will do that remotely without to give a PoA to someone that you can't trust long term.

We had a few users around in the past @Jonny Cage for one of them that do company and banking there.
Click to expand...

Yeah, obviously you need a person you can trust to do the process. Or take a flight and do it by yourself. Cost will be similar.

 

[Forester]

pedromaldonado said:
Can you travel to Georgia? It seems you can open a bank account in that country easily. You can even do it remotely (previous payment to a third party)
Click to expand...

Is not there a game over in Georgia? For example, read here Question - Problems with Georgia because of Russia

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I am just a simple countryman. Anything I say is only a personal opinion, not a certified advice 🙂

If you think it makes sense, you can like it; if opposite, please, tell me, why I am wrong...

 

[pedromaldonado]

Forester said:
Is not there a game over in Georgia? For example, read here Question - Problems with Georgia because of Russia
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The page where I got the information about Georgia it does not show any issue about it. In fact, they still are offering the option to open a bank account in Georgia through them: (Cuenta bancaria Georgia - a distancia y sin intercambio de datos). But better to follow the situation day by day.

 

[Onassis]

pedromaldonado said:
The page where I got the information about Georgia it does not show any issue about it. In fact, they still are offering the option to open a bank account in Georgia through them: (Cuenta bancaria Georgia - a distancia y sin intercambio de datos). But better to follow the situation day by day.
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I was about to open an account in Georgia through them, they were responsive and everything was OK on their end.

However I ended up cancelling my application as I forgot to send them an apostilled document and by then it was too late as my government limited access to courts to only those who had a Covid pass/QR code.