Youbiz and Aspire (EMIs)

[daniels27]

I know many in Europe that did this and never had any⁤ problems. You will run into problems if you just completely mix your transactions. I.e. if⁣ you use the same account for buying food at Costco and receiving money from your⁢ personal eBay sales as you use for your company. If you use a dedicated personal︀ account only for company, there is no problem (unless you are from a country which︁ specifially mandates the use of corporate accounts). And it is also no problem like in︂ the case of @slink where you use a personal account to receive GST refunds once︃ per quarter. IRAS allows you to use any account in any name. Generally, it is︄ also no problem to run travel expenses through personal credit cards and then refunding them︅ from the company account in bulk.

The problem only arises when it becomes a complete︆ mess and unclear what transactions are for the company and which ones not.

 

[SoNewToAllShit]

ouhhmmm in‍ the country I come from you get troubles doing so at least with turnover above⁠ 150K euros

 

[daniels27]

Where is that?

 

[EliasIT]

Try doing that in Denmark, they’d tattoo‌ your ring muscle and claim you’re Sanjay Shah, even if he’s in prison and you’re‍ a redhead running a vegetable stall in the middle of Copenhagen.

 

[aniglo22]

Yeah, but you're violating the Terms of Service,︃ as most banks prohibit the use of personal accounts for business purposes.

 

[daniels27]

It higly depends on the‍ jurisdiction. In many jurisdictions self-employed have no other choice than using a personal account. Hence,⁠ the banks know that and accept such use. And even for proper companies, banks in⁤ places like the US etc. generally accept such use. See Chase:

For example Amazon and PayPal both allow payouts to either an account in the name of︁ the business or in the owner/director. Generally, the banks won't be able to tell whether︂ the money comes from a LLC or from self-employment.

Then, there are places like many︃ in the EU where banks offer special self-employment packages as the personal account are not︄ really meant for this. Hong Kong would be another example where self-employed can use personal︅ accounts, but only up to a quite limited extent, i.e. receiving sales commissions in the︆ magnitude of a normal high salary probably will work, while doing goods trading in the︇ millions will most likely lead to account closure.

In Germany, you can use a personal︈ account for any transparent entity, including the prevalent KG:
(In English: You can use personal account for transparent entities. For︌ intransparent entities (Kapitalgesellschaften), a business account is needed.)

I personally would recommend using a business︍ account whenever possible. If you have some Singapore Pty Ltd and need to get back︎ GST from IRAS, I guess if they offer the choice of any account on the️ GIRO application, it is legit in that case.

 

[aniglo22]

Where did I mention the legal aspect ?︉
I'm talking about the terms of service (or in german : AGB )
Even chase︊ doesn't allow the business use of personal accounts (https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chase-ux/documents/personal/checking/deposit-account-agreement.pdf) :

 

[daniels27]

Yes, but still, they tolerate it. Of course the terms say otherwise, but‍ their website is pretty clear that they tolerate it at least up to some extent.⁠

Again, I personally would not recommend it if you have alternatives. But for the case⁤ of @slink, I do not see a problem.

 

[aniglo22]

That’s just a⁤ random article , it is completely irrelevant.
It even says so in the footer:
You should read the actual agreements and terms of service.

 

[daniels27]

Honestly, it is a US bank. We have discussed it here many times. There are‌ plenty of users here who were running millions through their personal accounts without any issues.‍ Nobody is going to write in their terms that it is allowed. They just tolerate⁠ it and when some Nigerian prince comes, the refer to their terms and close the⁤ acount.

In any case, it is OT and I already wrote many times, that you⁣ should use a business account whenever possible. I think we all agree.

 

[daniels27]

@slink I was finally able to get a reply from IRAS. I think the way‌ to go is:

• Apply for GIRO with you personal Singaporean bank account. This is sufficient‍ to fulfill the GST registration requirements.
  
• Apply for Paynow Corporate using one of their providers to get the refund.
  

I have not yet tried those providers.

 

[slink]

Hey @daniels27 thanks I really appreciate your help on this. I'm going to put⁣ the wheels in motion and set this all up today.

I'll be using my personal⁢ Singaporean bank account. As others have said, perhaps not the most ideal setup but by︀ far the best one I've got, and as it will enable me to get over︁ well over 100,000 SGD back each year, it definitely seems worth it to me.

 

[slink]

Is this definitely the case that you won't need to pay tax⁤ on foreign income if it's not remitted to a Singapore bank account? It says this⁣ on the IRAS website:

https://www.iras.gov.sg/taxes/corpo...-companies/companies-receiving-foreign-income

I'm not sure what the definition of "trade or business carried on in Singapore" is.︂

Also, does receiving money into your fintech Singapore account such as Aspire or Wise not︃ count as being remitted to Singapore?

 

[alley]

That must be all the activity you have tied to‍ Singapore, if I’m reading it correctly. But of course, I could be wrong.

 

[slink]

I just tried it. I'm still unable to do it as it requires a⁣ Singapore mobile number for sign-up, which you can only get in person by going to⁢ Singapore.

 

[alley]

maybe try services like https://tollfreeforwarding.com/virtual-phone-number/singapore

 

[slink]

Found another reason it does't work - when you choose your bank for GIRO⁣ on the IRAS site, it asks you to connect to your bank but automatically directs⁢ you to business account login page for your bank, which means those with personal accounts︀ like me are unable to login.

 

[slink]

However this is via eGIRO⁤ trying to sign up automatically. I don't know if it's different signing up for GIRO⁣ if you use the paper form and do it that way. @daniels27 do you know?⁢ Also if so, how long does it usually take?

 

[daniels27]

Which one are you trying that needs a Singaporean mobile⁠ number? For Paynow Corporate, habve you tried anext.com.sg?

For GIRO, you︀ can use a personal account. You need to download the form and mail it in.︁ Please ensure that your bank has your signature on file, as they will validate it.︂ You need to send it in in paper and processing takes 21 days according to︃ the indications on the form.

I am not sure on that one. I'll check and let you know︈ if I am able to get a firm answer.

In short, I think the combination︉ with a personal GIRO account (required for voluntary GST registration) and a Paynow Corporate (local︊ business account) should work. An alternative would be to use GIRO in combination with a︋ foreign business account;
https://www.iras.gov.sg/quick-links/refunds
Although there will be wire fees probably on both ends to︌ be beared, this may be a viable solution. You basically can keep the GST refunds︍ in your IRAS account for as long as you operate and then pay out once︎ and the end of the companies lifetime or whenever the accumulated credits reach a certain️ threshold.

Do you have a US or Taiwan bank account for your company?

 

[Houdini]

Did you guys total off topic ca#"!