OVZA
New Horizons Paraguay
Ticker tape by TradingView

Private banking - 7/8 figures, white and safe

Status
Not open for further replies.
Maybe, if they accept you. They quickly rejected my request for‍ discussing an account opening.
Yes LGT is good, also⁤ the Austrian branch if you like the EU bor&%#

Cité Gestion can open accounts with other⁣ banks for you.
 
Not at all – but‌ perhaps it can be more easy to open with LGT AU? (No info, just guessing.)‍
If it is still so (yes, it's fully understandable, they are originally asset managers), it's⁤ really useful. Thanks for pointing at it.
 
Are UBS /⁣ CS and LGT ok with only self-directed accounted even at large sums or do they⁢ force you to buy their mediocre mutual funds?

In 2019 UBS insisted that people buy︀ there products or they would charge 10x the fees for foreigners. IMHO prices in Switzerland︁ are more competitive than before.

I question myself whether there's any benefit using Switzerland as︂ a broker compared to Singapore or Liechtenstein?
 
Correct
Yes they do that and the money⁤ goes to the other banks’ books, while you keep controlling it through CG

They don’t force you to do anything but you need to bring some business, also outside︀ their mutual funds. For example UBS has interesting real estate deals.
Sometimes you︃ just need to buy a random low risk fund as an entry ticket for more︄ interesting products.
None that I could think of,︆ apart from the easier accessibility.
 
Fully understandable – and nice.‍ Simply, they are still able to run as real wealth managers.
I know about negative experience with CS⁤ – perhaps it cannot be called forcing but continuous unsolicited offering and offering and offering...⁣ 😉
Fully understandable (and⁢ acceptable), in general.

I cannot judge re: Singapore.︁ CH and LI I consider to be comparable, some pros, come cons. (CH I consider︂ to be more robust /geopolitically/, LI is more protective /no foreign court rulings acknowledged/.)
 
I would not recommend Singapore‌ for anything more than pocket change.
If it comes to any sort of legal dispute‍ you, as a foreigner, will always be at the loosing end.
Aside form the above⁠ I find proceedings over there very bureaucratic, stubborn and inefficent. A bit similar to all⁤ these COVID measures SG had for far too long.
Btw., a perfect example of Singaporean⁣ mind-set is this -> Exclusive: Singapore banks report tax amnesty Indonesians to police stupi#21

SG banking:⁢
Either you go with a private bank, pay about the same fees as everywhere else︀ but will be settled with very unattractive prices when dealing in non-local bonds.
If you︁ want to something on the stock market, most private banks do not offer a well-thought︂ trading platform which means you are better off to split between banking and brokerage. That︃ means a lot of bureaucracy because both, broker and bank, do KYC separately, even though︄ it might the very same financial institution.
 
For investing purposes into the usual stock market I recommend SC SG. I︄ haven't had an issue to open a private bank account as priority banking client with︅ them (no wealth management though). Can't speak for business matters.
 
Once I was planning to open an account with a private bank in‍ Switzerland. It was mostly related to one specific deal that they could help with. The⁠ manager was pitching their wealth management solutions and how they would discretionary buy all kinds⁤ of weird financial products using my money... I clearly indicated that I was not interested⁣ and was quite happy with my boring index funds portfolio that I rebalance once a⁢ year and don't want to pay a lot of fees. The manager was very straight:︀ "Then we can just take 0.8% of what you hold with us yearly + nominal︁ trade fees and leave you alone". I appreciated that. It's expensive as we are talking︂ about 7-figures (I am not used to this negative rates yet...), but well, one got︃ to pay for service.

The deal didn't go through though and I didn't open an︄ account there.
Could you (or anybody with first-hands experience) please advise: is it typical to︅ settle on arrangement like "I pay you circa 1% of AUM, but not really interested︆ in you managing them actively, certainly don't want sales pitches regarding your expensive private funds"︇ or it's not enough?
 
no it is not. Switzerland is loosing more⁤ and more in wealth management and got competitive rates nowadays (that is what I've heard).⁣ I'll drop UBS, BGL BNP, Pictet, VP Bank and LGT Bank a mail to find⁢ out their willingness to help me. I've done extensive research about their funds and products︀ and, even only preserving wealth, there's only one hand of funds I would ever invest︁ in. I hope they can come up with good fee structure for advisory or execution︂ only or something like a flat fee for my special needs. Paying 1% AUM for︃ just holding the assets is nonsense.
 
Uhm, excuse me? You say that paying 1% is not enough︁ for the banks and then say that 1% is too much. We got confused here.︂
Would love to know the results of your research though. Please post what offers you︃ got! Wish you to find something reasonable.

I do for my passive index funds actually.︅ I don't need any additional services for that and Interactive Brokers is as cheap as︆ you can get. Though I do need good service from a bank, so now evaluating︇ if some private bank is worth it.
 
If you actually deal with IBKR and looking for something⁤ more regulated like a bank the logical step would be looking into something like Swissquote⁣ or Saxobank where you still enjoy reasonable fees but having a fully regulated bank which⁢ comes along with all the benefits.

Dealt with so many guys as of today and︀ never met a single one who was happy with switching from IBKR to a Private︁ Bank - including me.

You need to have very "specific" needs or you need to︂ be a very high risk individual that a Private Bank with all the charges is︃ really worth it - here is an example from one of my fellow Germans:

https://insideparadeplatz.ch/2022/03/15/mirabaud-zuerich-war-privatbank-des-wirecard-chefs/
I doubt Markus Braun cared about paying some $$$ or % while getting a 25m$︄ loan for worthless Wirecard Stocks and rumours already back in the days.
 
As per my experience,︄ paying 1% AUM for just holding the assets is really nonsense. You can expect better︅ rates, say (roughly) a half of it.

See this post Diversifying securities across multiple brokers︇ and jurisdictions (personal wealth) . To quote/rephrase (I agree with @Martin Everson on it), it's︈ a good idea to use discount brokers like IBKR for wealth planning if and only︉ if you are able to trade by yourself, you are actively trading and don't have︊ a buy and hold strategy. (So, not applicable to anyone.)

See above.
What do you mean by “I do need️ good service from a bank”? What particular services do you need? Holding the assets, asset‌ management, loans, credit cards, a safe box, (etc.) ...? The answer fundamentally depends on it.‍
Good idea, IMO.
Well, not all private banks are the same︄ 😉. But if we are talking just about asset management, then yes, if someone is︅ able to trade independently, in many cases the private bank is not an optimal solution︆ for him.
 
And a typical private bank would be alright getting their share and not trying to upsell‍ their funds in your experience? That's useful information, thank you!

I don't quite get this⁠ comparison of a brokerage firm and a bank. Especially in terms of "more regulated" etc.⁤ They are just plain different things.

My question is of a typical fees schedule /⁣ arrangements in private banking. Discussing "what is a good service from a bank" would be⁢ off-topic. Will be grateful if somebody adds his experience. Regards.
 
He asked if it is typical to settle on arrangements at %1 - no⁠ it is not. So, no confusion here. 1% for AUM for execution only is way⁤ too much.

Have you ever have hold 8 figures with SQ︃ or Saxo?
 
Is there any issues holding 8 figures with SQ or SAXO? I mean lets‍ say you just want to invest in some ETF's.

Although been rejected by most private⁠ banks so far, the fees seem to be much to high (nearly 1%). Just looked⁤ at LGT Management fee(0.75%) Cystody (0.25%) so you pay 1% as I understand and more⁣ fees for every trade.

Maybe don't get the concept of private banking. But maybe it⁢ is more about the network and so on. So helping raise money or find private︀ investors. Please correct me if that is wrong...
 
forget about rates on their published schedule of fees. If you bring a bunch of⁤ money, you can negotiate.
 
Not sure what a bunch of‍ money is. Would bring no more than 4MM$ to a private bank. Which private bank⁠ would you suggest for such sum? With good fees and of course a bit "service"⁤ what ever that means in private banking.

UBS gave me 0.65% custody fee assuming 500K,⁣ but I would negotiate if they accept the money and more cash is on the⁢ account.
 
At least with︀ Swissquote there is no issues with holding 10-20m$ especially in stocks like ETFs.

Have seen︁ this and even helped with getting onboarded for several of our clients - support is︂ good - no advisory but you can get some good pointers at least from the︃ DIFC guys here in Dubai.

The most important thing is that Swissquote is heavily used︄ in Switzerland itself so should ever something go wrong the GoV has pressure helping them︅ out to keep the citizens happy.

This is not something you can say about most︆ Geneve Private Banks with 70-80% non-resident / Citizens being onboarded there.

So from this point︇ of view I would only go with either UBS for private banking / Swissquote for︈ discount" borgerkage and Post Finance for personal / retail account - everything else is in︉ fact beside of the Banks of each Canton not used at all from Switzerland residents︊ / citizens. Same goes for Liechtenstein - LGT owned by the Prince or LLB owned︋ by the country - avoid banks like bendura onboarding Panama, BVI with "exotic" UBOs.

Can't comment on benefits of private banks - I guess it's all about connections - BNP︌ offered once part of there wealth management access to football lounges they are sponsors of.︍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

JohnnyDoe.is is an uncensored discussion forum
focused on free speech,
independent thinking, and controversial ideas.
Everyone is responsible for their own words.

Quick Navigation

Forums

User Menu

Login
Community platform by JohnnyDoe © 2025 JohnnyDoe
Top Bottom