I would also like to know, these are the first news I ever hear about getting out of Spain implying a "high chance" of getting audited for the last 4 years. Hopefully it's a little bit of an exageration!
Crypto high 6 fig with no source of funds no tax returns looking to offramp
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What are the main benefits of mentor group gold?
To be fair, I've already for 3 different tax consultations in the last couple months and they solved close to nothing lol
To be fair, I've already for 3 different tax consultations in the last couple months and they solved close to nothing lol
Listen to me. First, you leave Europe. Second, you come back here and we will help you with offramping.
Yes, or Andorra, Monaco, Germany etc. But don't come cry once they told the Spanish guys that you actually held it while you were there and would have been subject to tax. You have made enough money, so you do no longer need to live off social welfare.
It’s real,there’s a specific division within the Spanish Tax Agency (Agencia Tributaria) internally known as the “030 team.” Not joking.
That said, it’s true that the likelihood of scrutiny increases if you “relocate” to certain jurisdictions like Andorra, Portugal, Gibraltar, the UK (although now that the non-dom scheme is over, this may relax), Monaco, Cyprus, Malta, or Italy. These countries are often targeted because it’s easier to simulate residency there.
If you’re curious, there’s also another “special operations” team known as “los zoneros.” They focus on Spanish individuals who claim to have moved to the Canary Islands and set up a “Zona ZEC”︀ company to benefit from the reduced 4% corporate income tax rate instead of the standard︁ 25%.
I’ve heard there’s another team, often referred to as los peluqueros, which allegedly︂ handles cases involving offshore residents who spend significant time in Spain. The Spanish tax authorities︃ use this to argue that such individuals should be classified as Spanish tax residents. The︄ name los peluqueros might stem from how tax investigators reportedly gathered evidence in the Shakira︅ case, following her daily for 12 months and documenting her frequent visits to a hairdresser︆ in Barcelona to support their claim that she was a full tax resident in Spain.︇
That said, it’s true that the likelihood of scrutiny increases if you “relocate” to certain jurisdictions like Andorra, Portugal, Gibraltar, the UK (although now that the non-dom scheme is over, this may relax), Monaco, Cyprus, Malta, or Italy. These countries are often targeted because it’s easier to simulate residency there.
If you’re curious, there’s also another “special operations” team known as “los zoneros.” They focus on Spanish individuals who claim to have moved to the Canary Islands and set up a “Zona ZEC”︀ company to benefit from the reduced 4% corporate income tax rate instead of the standard︁ 25%.
I’ve heard there’s another team, often referred to as los peluqueros, which allegedly︂ handles cases involving offshore residents who spend significant time in Spain. The Spanish tax authorities︃ use this to argue that such individuals should be classified as Spanish tax residents. The︄ name los peluqueros might stem from how tax investigators reportedly gathered evidence in the Shakira︅ case, following her daily for 12 months and documenting her frequent visits to a hairdresser︆ in Barcelona to support their claim that she was a full tax resident in Spain.︇
Sorry about hijacking this thread a little bit but I think this will be a good piece of additional information to the topic if answered.
I am not from Spain but from the EU, where do you suggest to go? I know EU is really messed up and they are obsessed with constant theft, redistribution, etc. etc. yet I cannot locate a safe alternative
I read here and see Paraguay, Dominican Republic, and so on. these places are good to go for my winter holiday when︀ I get cold, still I cannot imagine a full time residence there. Simply they don't︁ really feel safe, statistics show that too, the lifestyle is also different and even more︂ so in some other Carribean places.
I found Uruguay a bit more comfortable in some︃ way but it is not super tax effective compared to the usual mentioned choices.
So far I only really felt good about Georgia and using the really minimal tax individual︄ entrepreneurship while continuing to receive from the foreign companies with substance. I guess Georgia is︅ at risk with RU and this is not the right area for political talks, anyways︆ it seemed like the most acceptable.
Or do you have some other picks that make︇ sense?
I am not from Spain but from the EU, where do you suggest to go? I know EU is really messed up and they are obsessed with constant theft, redistribution, etc. etc. yet I cannot locate a safe alternative
I read here and see Paraguay, Dominican Republic, and so on. these places are good to go for my winter holiday when︀ I get cold, still I cannot imagine a full time residence there. Simply they don't︁ really feel safe, statistics show that too, the lifestyle is also different and even more︂ so in some other Carribean places.
I found Uruguay a bit more comfortable in some︃ way but it is not super tax effective compared to the usual mentioned choices.
So far I only really felt good about Georgia and using the really minimal tax individual︄ entrepreneurship while continuing to receive from the foreign companies with substance. I guess Georgia is︅ at risk with RU and this is not the right area for political talks, anyways︆ it seemed like the most acceptable.
Or do you have some other picks that make︇ sense?
If you like Georgia, why not Armenia?
Some like Bali, others Taiwan. Both possible at about 3%.
Gibraltar would be another option.
South Africa has some vibes.
Hong Kong still fits many.
Some like Bali, others Taiwan. Both possible at about 3%.
Gibraltar would be another option.
South Africa has some vibes.
Hong Kong still fits many.
But the current NHR 2.0 doesn't include capital gains or dividends, right? It's only for income tax from what I digged into it.
I was very close to going for NHR + Malta/cyprus in 2023 but I had a lot of uncertainties and in the end didn't end up pulling the trigger. If I went back in time I'd surely go to Portugal with nhr︀ + malta/cyprus company with enough substance. I know more about the Portuguese IRS and a︁ good enough setup would be very very safe in my opinion.
I was very close to going for NHR + Malta/cyprus in 2023 but I had a lot of uncertainties and in the end didn't end up pulling the trigger. If I went back in time I'd surely go to Portugal with nhr︀ + malta/cyprus company with enough substance. I know more about the Portuguese IRS and a︁ good enough setup would be very very safe in my opinion.
For crypto cash out? Georgia would be one of the right places, plenty︇ of 'kiosks' offering cash for USDT, as well as lots of telegram groups. Some even︈ pay you 0.5% for that, instead of charging you a fee, as sometimes they are︉ in need of USDT. Bulgaria used to do the same, as Turkey too, but I︊ am not sure about the current situation. And there are other gems as Montenegro and︋ Albania, too.
Otherwise, the usual suspects in Asia. For full time: PH, KH, VN, MY,︌ TW, MU, for <6 months per year: TH, JP, ID.
If you prefer South America,︍ Panama seems like a simple choice, Nicaragua is a much cheaper and adventurous option, and︎ Equador is something in between. Well, and PY if you don't need beaches. You could️ also look into República Oriental del Uruguay, but as it looks a little too boring, I haven't looked into the details.
Otherwise, the usual suspects in Asia. For full time: PH, KH, VN, MY,︌ TW, MU, for <6 months per year: TH, JP, ID.
If you prefer South America,︍ Panama seems like a simple choice, Nicaragua is a much cheaper and adventurous option, and︎ Equador is something in between. Well, and PY if you don't need beaches. You could️ also look into República Oriental del Uruguay, but as it looks a little too boring, I haven't looked into the details.
Well if I want a permanent solution to my ever︇ growing crypto portfolio "problem" at some point I'm going to have to leave. There's no︈ other way around it.
The only way they could hurt me with an audit would︉ be by linking 15-20k of yearly expenses for the last 4 years (through nexo/crypto.com debit︊ cards) with wallets from which I made the tx to crypto.com/nexo, and then accuse me︋ of those being my wallets. Afaik that is unheard of right? How can they prove︌ those wallets belong to me. Afaik wallets (at least until mica comes into play in︍ a few days) are pseudonymous...
I've been quite anxious since I read that message of︎ yours about 030 + high risk of audit tbh
I felt that worst case scenario️ I go to Portugal and have to sell my house but that's about it, but if you add the added risk of getting audited that's pretty bad. Still can't figure out what to do.
You seem to mention that other destinies like Panamá would make me less likely to get audited, that would be cool but sadly it's not really an option for me.
The only way they could hurt me with an audit would︉ be by linking 15-20k of yearly expenses for the last 4 years (through nexo/crypto.com debit︊ cards) with wallets from which I made the tx to crypto.com/nexo, and then accuse me︋ of those being my wallets. Afaik that is unheard of right? How can they prove︌ those wallets belong to me. Afaik wallets (at least until mica comes into play in︍ a few days) are pseudonymous...
I've been quite anxious since I read that message of︎ yours about 030 + high risk of audit tbh
I felt that worst case scenario️ I go to Portugal and have to sell my house but that's about it, but if you add the added risk of getting audited that's pretty bad. Still can't figure out what to do.
You seem to mention that other destinies like Panamá would make me less likely to get audited, that would be cool but sadly it's not really an option for me.
Have you paid capital gains tax on your crypto earnings?
And for the card spending, have you read this
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/cour...eking-information-about-dutch-residents-using
I tell you once︀ more before they get you in jail: run, mow!
And for the card spending, have you read this
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/cour...eking-information-about-dutch-residents-using
I tell you once︀ more before they get you in jail: run, mow!
Yes, that amounts to 20,000 times 4, which equals 80,000 in undeclared earnings. This could result in approximately 20,000 in taxes owed (assuming they︀ were capital gains and not income tax) plus a fine of up to an additional︁ 20,000. Overall, it’s not an excessive amount.
It's not uncommon for authorities to discover undeclared︂ earnings and subsequently send notices or requests to electronic money institutions (EMIs) and providers like︃ Nexo, if the accounts are linked to your ID via KYC providers. Not uncommon neither︄ to request Onfido, AMLBot and Sumsub, in which EMIs and exchanges you validated your ID︅ 🙂
Pep
It's not uncommon for authorities to discover undeclared︂ earnings and subsequently send notices or requests to electronic money institutions (EMIs) and providers like︃ Nexo, if the accounts are linked to your ID via KYC providers. Not uncommon neither︄ to request Onfido, AMLBot and Sumsub, in which EMIs and exchanges you validated your ID︅ 🙂
Pep
Hey there,
Still planning︈ that move to Spain or Portugal with your crypto? Here's a simple way to think︉ about it:
My Recommended Steps:
Cheers,
Still planning︈ that move to Spain or Portugal with your crypto? Here's a simple way to think︉ about it:
My Recommended Steps:
- Company: First off, setting up a company (like a US︊ Delaware LLC, a Portuguese Lda, or a Spanish SL or any other limited liability company︋ in other country – we can figure out the best fit for you). Now with︌ brand new company name get business IBAN account in well known bank and also some︍ fintech bank account with multicurrency (could be useful in the future) and some crypto exchange︎ accounts. Note than have a real business plan for the company and create a company️ website is a must.
- Move the Crypto: Next up, you'd move the crypto you're planning to use for buying, selling, or investing into the company's crypto wallets/exchange accounts. Then, you can transfer some of that to the company's online bank account and maybe even a bit to a regular bank with a branch near where you're thinking of living.
- Loan Smart: A smart move can be getting a loan in the company's name, using your crypto (or even the fiat you've moved) as collateral. This lets you use that value without selling your crypto right away, which can be a tax win. Plus, your crypto/fiat investments can keep growing! Some of the newer fintech or online banks are making this︀ easier.
- Spend Wisely: With that loan money, you can buy whatever you're after – cars,︁ real states, or investments in stocks, bonds, derivatives whatever you're into.
- Direct Crypto︂ Sale: If you'd rather just cash out some Bitcoin directly, we can handle that too.︃ We can buy your crypto and send Euros to your bank account (depends on the︄ amount, of course) we can use the P2P feature of any crypto exchange. Makes things︅ super simple.
- Investing & Property Help: Once you've got Euros (whether from a loan or︆ selling crypto), that's where I can really help. I run a Family office desk here︇ in Spain, helping families manage their wealth. My fee is based on how well your︈ investments do (performance fee), so we're on the same team. We can figure out the︉ best way to invest in traditional stuff (stocks, bonds, commodities, derivatives, etc.) and, since I︊ used to be a real estate agent, I can even help you find a great︋ property in Spain or Portugal.
Cheers,
Yeah if s**t hits the fan I'm totally ok with paying that fine, like I︁ mentioned what worries me deeply is them accusing me of those being my wallets, and︂ saying I owe them a huge amount in taxes. But I don't think as things︃ are today this would be possible for them and not sure if that would be︄ even legal. So I'm leaning towards going to Portugal yes.
You really seem to have︅ deep knowledge of how Spanish hacienda works, more than any consultant that I have paid︆ so far haha
Yes luckily there's nothing else that ties me to KYC. Never used︇ KYC cex (nor linked fiat tx to any cex). The only link is the debit︈ card withdrawals to crypto.com and nexo...
You really seem to have︅ deep knowledge of how Spanish hacienda works, more than any consultant that I have paid︆ so far haha
Yes luckily there's nothing else that ties me to KYC. Never used︇ KYC cex (nor linked fiat tx to any cex). The only link is the debit︈ card withdrawals to crypto.com and nexo...
They can't prove you own a certain wallet if you never gave proof of ownership to an exchange using your own ID.
This will change TOMORROW with the "travel rule", I actually got a really nice email from Kraken explaining how they plan on enforcing this total nonsense:
This will change TOMORROW with the "travel rule", I actually got a really nice email from Kraken explaining how they plan on enforcing this total nonsense:
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