I'm talking a few thousands euros, some tens of thousands tops.. I live in the EU neighbouring Switzerland and could deposit there but that probably wouldn't escape reporting.. What are you guys doing with it, buying art?! 😛
What are you doing with your "petty" cash? Where are you hiding it?
- Thread starter Sean Restling
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I'm sure there was a way in the ancient times, what was it called.... aaah CASH - it's perfect in these cases 😀
Yeah tell me about it, it's become difficult to spend, difficult to deposit.. still, nice to have some though..
Buy gold as insurance. All of human history involves cycles (economic, political, wars, etc.) and we are now entering overlapping cycles of strife and uncertainly. Read "The Storm Before the Calm," by George Friedman and similar works that discuss these historical cycles for further insight.
https://www.amazon.com/Storm-Before...=1642037337&sprefix=the+storm+,aps,193&sr=8-1
https://www.amazon.com/Storm-Before...=1642037337&sprefix=the+storm+,aps,193&sr=8-1
Even though I agree with the thesis of "overlapping cycles of strife and uncertainty" I am not sure if Gold is (still) a useful insurance. Times have changed significantly: Gold is available in abundance (the universe is full of it), even on Planet Earth we mine more of it every year, almost all︀ Gold "produced" in the past 4'000 years is still available and Gold has only very︁ little industrial use (about 5%, hence there will never be a shortage of the yellow︂ metal).
Then there is a general change of behaviour how value is perceived. It is︃ sort of a tectonic shift like the switch from the horse/camel/elephant, which mankind used for︄ thousands of years as mode of transportation, towards more convenient and efficient automotive vehicles.
I do not know what will replace Gold as a store of value but it is︅ obvious that what mankind did during the past 4'000 years with regards to "store of value" is no longer valid. This is a pretty bleak picture for an︆ insurance.
Diamonds: The︇ worst idea because the entire market is controlled by a cartel. Plus the fact that︈ you rely on a handful of dealers who will always come up with fantasy prices︉ on both sides. Even if everything works out fine (the stones are what the certificate︊ says and the certificate is recognized) you have to calculate an immediate and significant loss︋ when buying today at dealer A and selling one hour later at dealer B.
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We all think too much about the future. What's the sense of it?
We spend︌ only limited time on Planet Earth, permanently think about wealth accumulation/wealth preservation. What for?
If you have excess money, keep cash and enjoy your life with that cash.
Always bear︍ in mind that in times of real crisis the government will take it all.
So, the best form of wealth preservation is to live a fun life because nobody can︎ later take it away from you.
Then there is a general change of behaviour how value is perceived. It is︃ sort of a tectonic shift like the switch from the horse/camel/elephant, which mankind used for︄ thousands of years as mode of transportation, towards more convenient and efficient automotive vehicles.
I do not know what will replace Gold as a store of value but it is︅ obvious that what mankind did during the past 4'000 years with regards to "store of value" is no longer valid. This is a pretty bleak picture for an︆ insurance.
Diamonds: The︇ worst idea because the entire market is controlled by a cartel. Plus the fact that︈ you rely on a handful of dealers who will always come up with fantasy prices︉ on both sides. Even if everything works out fine (the stones are what the certificate︊ says and the certificate is recognized) you have to calculate an immediate and significant loss︋ when buying today at dealer A and selling one hour later at dealer B.
-------------------------------------------------------------
We all think too much about the future. What's the sense of it?
We spend︌ only limited time on Planet Earth, permanently think about wealth accumulation/wealth preservation. What for?
If you have excess money, keep cash and enjoy your life with that cash.
Always bear︍ in mind that in times of real crisis the government will take it all.
So, the best form of wealth preservation is to live a fun life because nobody can︎ later take it away from you.
Gold as a store of value is no longer valid? Utterly ridiculous. Then why do central banks, directed by some of the finest minds on the planet, continue to buy and hoard gold? And in many cases, they do so at a record pace. It is because central banks realize that gold is the only real money -- and that it acts︀ as insurance against the collapse of fiat currency, which is simply a form of credit︁ evidenced by a note of indebtedness. Indeed, that is why they are called "banknotes." Gold︂ is the only major form of money not issued or controlled by any central bank.︃ As such, it will always be money . . . real money . . .︄ and it will always be a store of value.
Compare gold to something like Bitcoin, which originally claimed to be a form of money but then utterly failed in its original mission by never possessing any type of stable value. As any type of real money (i.e., having a stable value), it quickly became a joke.
Compare gold to something like Bitcoin, which originally claimed to be a form of money but then utterly failed in its original mission by never possessing any type of stable value. As any type of real money (i.e., having a stable value), it quickly became a joke.
I know, that would be a sensible thing, but for a few reasons I prefer to spend the money in the bank and set aside the cash 🙂
As you can see in my above post I did not︅ mention any cryptocurrency in this context.
To be a store of value the asset should︆ develop inline with inflation, with very low volatility. Under normal circumstances that should be achievable︇ with bonds but global central banks have destroyed this options (-> and pushed millions of︈ retirees into poverty).
Unfortunately, gold does not live up to its promise when it comes︉ to volatilty: In the past ten years alone gold first saw a rise to the︊ moon, just to collapse by 50%, and now being up half-way to its former high︋ it first reached about ten years ago. Not to speak of the catastrophic performance of︌ gold during the 1980's and 1990's. That alone makes it a rather risky investment and︍ not exactly a store of value.
You are absolutely correct that there are central banks︎ who continue purchasing gold and hoarding it in large quantities: Kazakhstan, Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Turkey, Qatar,️ China, Poland, Hungary .... . It should be obvious that this is much more politically motivated than anything else.
John Pierpont Morgan testified before Congress in 1912. That was 110 years ago. Back then gold was indeed real money and he could not have said anything else. The Dollar was pegged to gold (or vice versa, however you want to read it) and that's what was called the Gold Standard. Back then the Dollar was a young currency, the Federal Reserve -as we know it today- not even founded. Moreover, gold was still the dominant "currency" throughout the world - banknotes (printed money) had just︀ been invented.
Having said that, I am sure you admit that citing J.P. Morgan in︁ the context of our search for a "store of value" is not suitable anymore. Times︂ have changed too much in the past 110 years.
To be a store of value the asset should︆ develop inline with inflation, with very low volatility. Under normal circumstances that should be achievable︇ with bonds but global central banks have destroyed this options (-> and pushed millions of︈ retirees into poverty).
Unfortunately, gold does not live up to its promise when it comes︉ to volatilty: In the past ten years alone gold first saw a rise to the︊ moon, just to collapse by 50%, and now being up half-way to its former high︋ it first reached about ten years ago. Not to speak of the catastrophic performance of︌ gold during the 1980's and 1990's. That alone makes it a rather risky investment and︍ not exactly a store of value.
You are absolutely correct that there are central banks︎ who continue purchasing gold and hoarding it in large quantities: Kazakhstan, Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Turkey, Qatar,️ China, Poland, Hungary .... . It should be obvious that this is much more politically motivated than anything else.
John Pierpont Morgan testified before Congress in 1912. That was 110 years ago. Back then gold was indeed real money and he could not have said anything else. The Dollar was pegged to gold (or vice versa, however you want to read it) and that's what was called the Gold Standard. Back then the Dollar was a young currency, the Federal Reserve -as we know it today- not even founded. Moreover, gold was still the dominant "currency" throughout the world - banknotes (printed money) had just︀ been invented.
Having said that, I am sure you admit that citing J.P. Morgan in︁ the context of our search for a "store of value" is not suitable anymore. Times︂ have changed too much in the past 110 years.
I do not admit that at all. In fact, gold is still the only universal store of value. Even the USD is a distant second. Nothing that you have said proves otherwise. Gold is insurance because it acts conversely to whatever currency you hold. For example, if the value of the USD declines then gold usually goes up and vice versa. Regarding the︀ volatility that you mentioned, gold's volatility simply mirrors the volatility of the underlying currency.
If you hold gold, then you have a hedge against a currency decline -- or even︁ a collapse. Nothing else provides a universal hedge against the collapse of any particular currency.︂ Gold works as insurance in almost every country on the planet.
If you hold gold, then you have a hedge against a currency decline -- or even︁ a collapse. Nothing else provides a universal hedge against the collapse of any particular currency.︂ Gold works as insurance in almost every country on the planet.
I suppose there are different definitions of store of value than. If you look at Michal Saylors definition, that guy that pushed Bitcoin at the end of 2020 to a new high, I would agree that Bitcoin is at least some kind of a store of value (not all cryptocurrencies though). And if your time horizon is at least 4 years you most likely end up︀ outperforming inflation.
What you describe is the ideal scenario and the way︂ gold should react in times of crisis. And it still does react that way when︃ we take TRY, ARS, RUB, VEF/VES, EGP and the like. However, the aforementioned currencies are︄ not the benchmark and when taking Gold against CHF or USD it did not live︅ up to its expectations during the past 40 years stability-wise.
Note: I am looking for︆ a reliable store of value and do not see that with Gold. Just to clarify,︇ neither do I see CHF or USD as a store of value because central banks︈ destroyed the "bond-option" (see my above post).
I agree that you might be able to outperform inflation︎ but the same can be said about certain stocks and other financial instruments.
My discussion️ with @Golden Fleece is much more about a reliable store of value and stability. Unfortunately, BTC is too volatile to fit into this. Perhaps this changes one day but as long as the value of BTC goes up and down by 50% in a matter of weeks it is very far away from being a store of value.
Note: I am looking for︆ a reliable store of value and do not see that with Gold. Just to clarify,︇ neither do I see CHF or USD as a store of value because central banks︈ destroyed the "bond-option" (see my above post).
I agree that you might be able to outperform inflation︎ but the same can be said about certain stocks and other financial instruments.
My discussion️ with @Golden Fleece is much more about a reliable store of value and stability. Unfortunately, BTC is too volatile to fit into this. Perhaps this changes one day but as long as the value of BTC goes up and down by 50% in a matter of weeks it is very far away from being a store of value.
The problem is that you refuse to cite any actual facts for your unsupported thesis -- and, in fact, the actual evidence is contrary to all your assertions. Gold has indeed risen in USD during︀ times of crises during the past forty years, most recently in the wake of the︁ worldwide financial crisis after 2008.
After the initial liquidation period in late-2008 (when investors de-leveraged︂ out of all assets, including gold, and fled to the perceived safety of the USD),︃ gold rose steadily after the crisis.
After the initial liquidation period in late-2008 (when investors de-leveraged︂ out of all assets, including gold, and fled to the perceived safety of the USD),︃ gold rose steadily after the crisis.
I fully understand that you love gold. Nothing is wrong with that.
However, justifying your thesis by posting a 4-year chart while we are talking about a "store of value" doesn't make your arguments any more credible. What you now do is as︀ serious as somebody posting a BTC chart over the same period of time (well, it︁ would have to start one to two years later but the time frame can be︂ drawn out for the same period) and claiming that BTC is a "store of value"︃ eek¤%&.
Btw., why does your chart stop at the point when gold started crashing?
However, justifying your thesis by posting a 4-year chart while we are talking about a "store of value" doesn't make your arguments any more credible. What you now do is as︀ serious as somebody posting a BTC chart over the same period of time (well, it︁ would have to start one to two years later but the time frame can be︂ drawn out for the same period) and claiming that BTC is a "store of value"︃ eek¤%&.
Btw., why does your chart stop at the point when gold started crashing?
No, I brought up the topic of gold as "insurance" (see my first post, which is post #4), which it most certainly is (as proven by that chart). Insurance and a store of value are two different but interrelated issues. And no, I do not love gold. I hold a very minimal amount of gold, compared to my other assets. But as a prudent person, you should always have insurance, whether or not you feel that you need︀ it. That was my point.
So, I proved that gold worked both as insurance (and︁ a store of value, which is an issue that you raised, not me) in the︂ wake of the 2008 financial crisis. And if you use gold as insurance against a︃ crisis, and as a store of value during a crisis, then why would you need︄ to see the part of the gold chart after the crisis is over? Of course︅ gold will decline in price after a crisis is over. So, none of what you︆ say makes any sense.
So, I proved that gold worked both as insurance (and︁ a store of value, which is an issue that you raised, not me) in the︂ wake of the 2008 financial crisis. And if you use gold as insurance against a︃ crisis, and as a store of value during a crisis, then why would you need︄ to see the part of the gold chart after the crisis is over? Of course︅ gold will decline in price after a crisis is over. So, none of what you︆ say makes any sense.
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