Question withdraw crypto to spanish bank

[johnythetrip]

Hi guys, I'm new here and seems like this place is the hidden emerald.

Here is my case:
Russian passport
Spain resident w/o work permission since the end of 2021
Cryptotrader on binance (real account, but closed in the end of 2021 by my will)
Don't have a proof of origin of money because started to invest money in crypto in 2017
Earned networth 100% legal and it can be checked in blockchain with cashouts from binance wallet
Now I'm trading with my relative's binance account (Asia-region) and have my own officially registered on my name spanish account (Futures-trading is blocked in Spain, and I barely can use my trading bots on the spot-market)
Showed my real incomes (worked as a self-employed) and officially paid taxes in Russia and transferred some money to Spain.
I haven't got left any money in Russia and I got nothing to transfer.
Planning to invest in real estate to rent it and pay taxes
I'm not planning to move from Spain in the near future and I'd like to live here for at least 3-5 years more
Don't say "leave Spain" "it's a tax hell" etc. please


Now I'm considering buy a flat/house here but due to the lack of money in the Spanish bank account can't do this.

So here are two problems:
1) how to transfer money from crypto into my Spanish bank account? we are talking about 200-300k.
I heard that after the beginning of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine all processes of the automatic exchange of data between banks and tax authorities of Europe and Russia has stopped due to the sanctions. Maybe this could be an opportunity.
Are there any options for my case to receive money to my Spanish bank account?
Is anyone familiar with paying a house from the spanish lawyer bank account?


2) How to pay taxes on a part of my income/wealth.
My residence status doesn't give me the permission to work in Spain.
After some research I found an option with Capital Gain Tax (in my case it's income from crypto-trading on spanish binance account). But as I said before, without FUTURES-trading I can't earn money on crypto.
If there is no suitable option I will be happy just to pay taxes from the rent in the future, but now I don't have any official income so this problem is kind of pain in the a*s.

Any suggestions on this?

 

[Martin Everson]

johnythetrip said:
Don't have a proof of origin of money because started to invest money in crypto in 2017
Click to expand...

Sorry what is special about 2017 that you don't have a source of funds? ns2

P.S Welcome to the forum thu&¤#

Toggle signature
Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[meze99]

Did you talk to these guys? Pay with Bitcoin | Spain Homes ®
They may find a solution for you with a real estate payment in crypto.
Other options - get a loan from a third party with crypto as collateral. You will probably loose 10-15% and you should talk about that to your bank manager first.
However I wouldn't advise buying real estate in Spain for rent, very poor investment choice unless your goal is to hide money of dubious origin as an investment in real estate, - you may end up paying bills for squaters living in your property for years. Also next to impossible to evict a tenant who stopped paying rent.

 

[troubled soul]

meze99 said:
Did you talk to these guys? Pay with Bitcoin | Spain Homes ®
They may find a solution for you with a real estate payment in crypto.
Other options - get a loan from a third party with crypto as collateral. You will probably loose 10-15% and you should talk about that to your bank manager first.
However I wouldn't advise buying real estate in Spain for rent, very poor investment choice unless your goal is to hide money of dubious origin as an investment in real estate, - you may end up paying bills for squaters living in your property for years. Also next to impossible to evict a tenant who stopped paying rent.
Click to expand...

https://spainhomes.com/buying-in-spain/pay-with-bitcoinDo they ask for source of fund for crypto payment ?

 

[Sols]

Do you at least have a residence permit in Spain?

johnythetrip said:
Spain resident w/o work permission since the end of 2021
Click to expand...

johnythetrip said:
Earned networth 100% legal and it can be checked in blockchain with cashouts from binance wallet
Click to expand...

These two statements are unfortunately contradicting each other, and that's going to make things more difficult for you. Your funds were not 100% legally earned, if you earned them through commercial activities while prohibited from engaging in commercial activities on Spanish soil.

However, the tax authority probably doesn't care about your immigration status. Just cash out the money and pay tax.

Speak with a Spanish lawyer about your situation. It's probably not unique.

johnythetrip said:
Is anyone familiar with paying a house from the spanish lawyer bank account?
Click to expand...

The lawyer is required to perform the same KYC a bank would.

johnythetrip said:
2) How to pay taxes on a part of my income/wealth.
My residence status doesn't give me the permission to work in Spain.
After some research I found an option with Capital Gain Tax (in my case it's income from crypto-trading on spanish binance account). But as I said before, without FUTURES-trading I can't earn money on crypto.
If there is no suitable option I will be happy just to pay taxes from the rent in the future, but now I don't have any official income so this problem is kind of pain in the a*s.

Any suggestions on this?
Click to expand...

Again, speak with a Spanish lawyer about your situation. Maybe you find a way to run the money through a foreign company and receive it as dividends. Receiving dividends as a passive shareholder does often not violate non-work visas.

Toggle signature
This is the probably the answer to your question.

 

[scooterguy]

If you're a legal resident of Spain, it's very easy, just transfer the money to the bank and pay capital gains tax in your next year's "Declaración de la Renta."

Capital gains tax rates in Spain are as follows:

19%	Profits up to €6,000
21%	Profits between €6,000 and €50,000
23%	Profits between €50,000 and €200,000
26%	Profits over €200,000

Make sure the transactions were legal though, and that you're actually a legal resident, etc. otherwise an investigation by the Spanish authorities could get you in serious trouble.

A professional tax consultant may be able to get you some reduced rates and deductions by the way, so you may wanna use one.

 

[johnythetrip]

Martin Everson said:
Sorry what is special about 2017 that you don't have a source of funds? ns2
Click to expand...

Withdrew money from the bank and bought crypto with cash from the bank without any documents/receipts. Nothing interesting.

meze99 said:
Did you talk to these guys? Pay with Bitcoin | Spain Homes ®
They may find a solution for you with a real estate payment in crypto.
Other options - get a loan from a third party with crypto as collateral. You will probably loose 10-15% and you should talk about that to your bank manager first.
However I wouldn't advise buying real estate in Spain for rent, very poor investment choice unless your goal is to hide money of dubious origin as an investment in real estate, - you may end up paying bills for squaters living in your property for years. Also next to impossible to evict a tenant who stopped paying rent.
Click to expand...

I have already talked to similar company but I wanted to hear different opinion here.

Btw loan might be an interesting option, thanks for your answer/

About squaters - yes, very sad situation.

Sols said:
Do you at least have a residence permit in Spain?

These two statements are unfortunately contradicting each other, and that's going to make things more difficult for you. Your funds were not 100% legally earned, if you earned them through commercial activities while prohibited from engaging in commercial activities on Spanish soil.

However, the tax authority probably doesn't care about your immigration status. Just cash out the money and pay tax.
Click to expand...

Yes I do have a residence as I described earlier.
I earned all my NT while I was living in Russia and while I was a tax resident of Russia so there is no mistake. All funds were 100% legally earned.

Sols said:
Again, speak with a Spanish lawyer about your situation. Maybe you find a way to run the money through a foreign company and receive it as dividends. Receiving dividends as a passive shareholder does often not violate non-work visas.
Click to expand...

I will definitely try to find a good Spanish tax lawyer. If someone shares a contact of one I would be really grateful.

scooterguy said:
If you're a legal resident of Spain, it's very easy, just transfer the money to the bank and pay capital gains tax in your next year's "Declaración de la Renta."

Capital gains tax rates in Spain are as follows:

19%	Profits up to €6,000
21%	Profits between €6,000 and €50,000
23%	Profits between €50,000 and €200,000
26%	Profits over €200,000

Make sure the transactions were legal though, and that you're actually a legal resident, etc. otherwise an investigation by the Spanish authorities could get you in serious trouble.

A professional tax consultant may be able to get you some reduced rates and deductions by the way, so you may wanna use one.
Click to expand...

This capital gains tax info is suitable for the transactions only in previous year. So if I want to pay CGT for the 2022 I have to collect all the transactions and calculate profits/loses to provide them to the gestor in 2023. But as I said before, I earned my NT in 2020-2021 when I was living in Russia, not Spain. And the top of that I deleted my binance account in the end of 2021 so now I don't have history of my trades. Only that I got is history of deposit/withdraw to/from binance in blockchain. So everything looks a bit complicated.

 

[scooterguy]

johnythetrip said:
This capital gains tax info is suitable for the transactions only in previous year. So if I want to pay CGT for the 2022 I have to collect all the transactions and calculate profits/loses to provide them to the gestor in 2023. But as I said before, I earned my NT in 2020-2021 when I was living in Russia, not Spain. And the top of that I deleted my binance account in the end of 2021 so now I don't have history of my trades. Only that I got is history of deposit/withdraw to/from binance in blockchain. So everything looks a bit complicated.
Click to expand...

Everything is in the blockchain, so you could calculate (or at least estimate) with high precision the sale price - purchase price and pay capital gains tax on those profits.

Keep in mind also that if you had 300K in crypto at the end of 2022, and you were a resident of Spain during that year, you might have missed some reporting obligations, so proceed cautiously here as well.

 

[Lincoln Burrows]

• I'm not aware of the Spanish law; you mentioned that you don't have a work permit, but does that prevent you from remote work?

My suggestions are the following:

1. Receive the funds from a business account; for your services as a software developer, web developer, translator, etc.. (this option will require you to pay taxes according to your jurisdiction).
2. Receive the funds from a personal account; this will be in the disguise of a family member, or a boyfriend 🙂 (pros: there shall be no taxes for this option)
3. Find an OTC desk in Spain that buy/sells crypto for cash or an ATM machine.

I might be able to help you with the first two options, also, giving a Google search for the third option will show you some results.

 

[vehzag]

johnythetrip said:
Hi guys, I'm new here and seems like this place is the hidden emerald.

Here is my case:
Russian passport
Spain resident w/o work permission since the end of 2021
Cryptotrader on binance (real account, but closed in the end of 2021 by my will)
Don't have a proof of origin of money because started to invest money in crypto in 2017
Earned networth 100% legal and it can be checked in blockchain with cashouts from binance wallet
Now I'm trading with my relative's binance account (Asia-region) and have my own officially registered on my name spanish account (Futures-trading is blocked in Spain, and I barely can use my trading bots on the spot-market)
Showed my real incomes (worked as a self-employed) and officially paid taxes in Russia and transferred some money to Spain.
I haven't got left any money in Russia and I got nothing to transfer.
Planning to invest in real estate to rent it and pay taxes
I'm not planning to move from Spain in the near future and I'd like to live here for at least 3-5 years more
Don't say "leave Spain" "it's a tax hell" etc. please


Now I'm considering buy a flat/house here but due to the lack of money in the Spanish bank account can't do this.

So here are two problems:
1) how to transfer money from crypto into my Spanish bank account? we are talking about 200-300k.
I heard that after the beginning of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine all processes of the automatic exchange of data between banks and tax authorities of Europe and Russia has stopped due to the sanctions. Maybe this could be an opportunity.
Are there any options for my case to receive money to my Spanish bank account?
Is anyone familiar with paying a house from the spanish lawyer bank account?


2) How to pay taxes on a part of my income/wealth.
My residence status doesn't give me the permission to work in Spain.
After some research I found an option with Capital Gain Tax (in my case it's income from crypto-trading on spanish binance account). But as I said before, without FUTURES-trading I can't earn money on crypto.
If there is no suitable option I will be happy just to pay taxes from the rent in the future, but now I don't have any official income so this problem is kind of pain in the a*s.

Any suggestions on this?
Click to expand...

Pm me please we can discuss and I can share some experience, I speak Russian as well
Maybe we have already met
Are you near Valencia?

scooterguy said:
If you're a legal resident of Spain, it's very easy, just transfer the money to the bank and pay capital gains tax in your next year's "Declaración de la Renta."

Capital gains tax rates in Spain are as follows:

19%	Profits up to €6,000
21%	Profits between €6,000 and €50,000
23%	Profits between €50,000 and €200,000
26%	Profits over €200,000

Make sure the transactions were legal though, and that you're actually a legal resident, etc. otherwise an investigation by the Spanish authorities could get you in serious trouble.

A professional tax consultant may be able to get you some reduced rates and deductions by the way, so you may wanna use one.
Click to expand...

Since 2023 there are 28% over 300000

johnythetrip said:
Withdrew money from the bank and bought crypto with cash from the bank without any documents/receipts. Nothing interesting.


I have already talked to similar company but I wanted to hear different opinion here.

Btw loan might be an interesting option, thanks for your answer/

About squaters - yes, very sad situation.


Yes I do have a residence as I described earlier.
I earned all my NT while I was living in Russia and while I was a tax resident of Russia so there is no mistake. All funds were 100% legally earned.


I will definitely try to find a good Spanish tax lawyer. If someone shares a contact of one I would be really grateful.


This capital gains tax info is suitable for the transactions only in previous year. So if I want to pay CGT for the 2022 I have to collect all the transactions and calculate profits/loses to provide them to the gestor in 2023. But as I said before, I earned my NT in 2020-2021 when I was living in Russia, not Spain. And the top of that I deleted my binance account in the end of 2021 so now I don't have history of my trades. Only that I got is history of deposit/withdraw to/from binance in blockchain. So everything looks a bit complicated.
Click to expand...

I have a lawyer here in terms of crypto but i prefer meet each other first