Question Passport Concerns as a Ukrainian in EU

[SSV]

Hello everyone,

I've been a silent reader for many years, gaining valuable insights into banking, EMI, and cryptocurrency from this community. Today, circumstances compel me to seek your guidance.

As a Ukrainian citizen legally residing and conducting a small business in Cyprus, I'm currently facing a significant challenge. Ukraine has suspended consular services for military-age men, which includes the reissuing of foreign passports. There's a looming concern that, by the end of the year, those of us who do not return might face negative implications on our police clearance certificates and even the possibility of passport revocation. Furthermore, I am concerned that this situation could persist for decades, impacting long-term plans and stability.

Given these concerns, I am exploring ways to mitigate these potential repercussions so that I can continue living peacefully on the island with my family and maintain my business operations. All I need is to present valid ID to the migration unit once every year or two when applying for the next residence permit.

In this context, I am particularly considering the Citizenship by Investment (CBI) programs offered in the Caribbean. Obtaining a passport from a Caribbean state would allow me to officially inform authorities of my change in citizenship and continue using the new ID for all legal and business purposes here. Would pursuing this be a prudent step?

I would appreciate any insights or advice you could provide based on your experiences or knowledge.

 

[polonieth]

How long do you have on your passport left?

I can see things being much more clear towards the end of this year and hopefully you have enough time on your existing document to avoid the meat grinder.

 

[SSV]

The passport remains valid for another eight years. However, Ukrainian authorities are preparing ground for placing draft dodgers on a domestic wanted list, potentially leading to convictions that could compromise their police clearance certificates. To mitigate this risk, action should be taken by the end of the year. Options include acquiring a second citizenship, relocating to a country with easier naturalization processes, or taking a wait-and-see approach, hoping the situation resolves itself or perhaps with a little help from the well-known Ukrainian corruption 😉

 

[polonieth]

SSV said:
The passport remains valid for another eight years. However, Ukrainian authorities are preparing ground for placing draft dodgers on a domestic wanted list, potentially leading to convictions that could compromise their police clearance certificates. To mitigate this risk, action should be taken by the end of the year. Options include acquiring a second citizenship, relocating to a country with easier naturalization processes, or taking a wait-and-see approach, hoping the situation resolves itself or perhaps with a little help from the well-known Ukrainian corruption 😉
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I wonder what all the wealthy Ukrainians will do that went to Dubai as soon as the first shots were fired?

Second passport preferable. Then I'd go for wait and see what happens. I know it will drag out for a bit but Ukraine is basically finished as a functioning state. So I suppose the options will be renew your passport in whatever is left of rump state Ukraine, or get a Russian one.

 

[mraleph]

Any passport obtained from CBI program may put you in a similar situation.

From Grenada to Vanuatu, once Schengen access is lost to CBI passport holders, their passports will become like third world cointries'. At that point, you can relocate to issuing country.

All those CBI countries are English speaking. But, they aren't Europe nor North America.

 

[Martin Everson]

SSV said:
However, Ukrainian authorities are preparing ground for placing draft dodgers on a domestic wanted list, potentially leading to convictions that could compromise their police clearance certificates. To mitigate this risk, action should be taken by the end of the year. Options include acquiring a second citizenship, relocating to a country with easier naturalization processes, or taking a wait-and-see approach, hoping the situation resolves itself or perhaps with a little help from the well-known Ukrainian corruption
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Ukraine does not currently allow dual citizenship does it? Did the new proposal by Zelensky to allow it pass?

https://www.president.gov.ua/en/new...niciyuye-klyuchovij-zakonoproyekt-yakij-88465
If it has not passed then closing of consular services will also prevent you from renouncing citizenship to acquire another one.

In any case if the proposal passed and your able to have dual citizenship get a CBI one asap. You will probably be in a queue behind every Ukraine politicians wives and children but will be worth the wait 😉

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[mraleph]

Martin Everson said:
In any case if the proposal passed and your able to have dual citizenship get a CBI one asap. You will probably be in a queue behind every Ukraine politicians wives and children but will be worth the wait 😉
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https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/threads/the-risk-of-citizenship-by-investment-programs.36053/

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Most probably a CBI obtained with the purpose (explicit or not) of avoiding conscription will eventually be revoked.

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[jafo]

Definitely get a CBI!
There are others, but I have not been able to confirm their authenticity.

 

[mraleph]

jafo said:
Definitely get a CBI!
There are others, but I have not been able to confirm their authenticity.
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I may not agree with CBI - perhaps I'm wrong. Can you elaborate?

Also, what other options exist which authenticity you couldn't confirm?

 

[jafo]

mraleph said:
I may not agree with CBI - perhaps I'm wrong. Can you elaborate?
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If someone from St. Kitts & Nevis moves to the US and becomes an American citizen, NOBODY questions him.
The other direction and people lose their minds! Why?
Why can't OP move to St. Kitts & Nevis? It beats facing the Russians on a battlefield. Who cares what others think? Nobody will bleed for OP.
I empathize with the OP and genuinely feel sorry for him. I would let him hide out in any of the places I have access to, but I can't take his place and be cannon fodder. None of us can. Legality, with the exception of mala in se crimes, is some BS concept created by dastardly, weak grifters. OP needs to survive to fight another day!
By ANY means necessary! 😎

mraleph said:
Also, what other options exist which authenticity you couldn't confirm?
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This is for @Henn and Rich to answer. OP, you may need to contact @Henn and Rich for options. 😉

 

[JohnLocke]

polonieth said:
Second passport preferable. Then I'd go for wait and see what happens. I know it will drag out for a bit but Ukraine is basically finished as a functioning state. So I suppose the options will be renew your passport in whatever is left of rump state Ukraine, or get a Russian one.
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How far would OP get with a Russian passport these days?

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[Martin Everson]

mraleph said:
https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/threads/the-risk-of-citizenship-by-investment-programs.36053/
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The same happens in every country including Malta, Cyprus, Ukraine, UK etc etc. It also happens without CBI such as in UK. Chances are Roger Ver will lose his St kitts passport after conviction even though its against international law to make a person stateless 😕.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-citizenship-medvedchuk-derkach/32218343.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/23/shamima-begum-4
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/ne...orts-of-several-russian-belarusian-nationals/

Bottom line if your not a criminal or person with bad reputation you will be fine with CBI. If however Ukraine government is after you as a draft dodger etc or issues i.e a interpol Red Notice.....your screwed and with any pending criminal offences will lose your new passport.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[jafo]

JohnLocke said:
How far would OP get with a Russian passport these days?
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Exactly THAT: Not far! 😉
Going far means meeting the indestructible Russian fighting machine at the Ukrainian border. F*ck that! baw3##

I doubt ANY of us is seeking to become a Russian exhibit:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1785754569718247518
stupi#21

Martin Everson said:
The same happens in every country including Malta, Cyprus, Ukraine, UK etc etc. It also happens without CBI such as in UK. Chances are Roger Ver will lose his St kitts passport after conviction even though its against international law to make a person stateless 😕.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-citizenship-medvedchuk-derkach/32218343.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/23/shamima-begum-4
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/ne...orts-of-several-russian-belarusian-nationals/

Bottom line if your not a criminal or person with bad reputation you will be fine with CBI. If however Ukraine government is after you as a draft dodger etc or issues i.e a interpol Red Notice.....your screwed and with any pending criminal offences will lose your new passport.
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Potential buyers of the CBI can easily solve this. They can demand that the country make it irrevocable and put up a bond in case they violate the simple agreement.
If those shilling the CBI are NOT willing to do it, they'll get ZERO sales. They might as well "island" their offer (pun intended) smi(&%

Last edited: May 3, 2024

 

[mraleph]

Martin Everson said:
The same happens in every country including Malta, Cyprus, Ukraine, UK etc etc. It also happens without CBI such as in UK. Chances are Roger Ver will lose his St kitts passport after conviction even though its against international law to make a person stateless 😕.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-citizenship-medvedchuk-derkach/32218343.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/23/shamima-begum-4
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/ne...orts-of-several-russian-belarusian-nationals/

Bottom line if your not a criminal or person with bad reputation you will be fine with CBI. If however Ukraine government is after you as a draft dodger etc or issues i.e a interpol Red Notice.....your screwed and with any pending criminal offences will lose your new passport.
Click to expand...

The person can't be put on INTERPOL notice for any crime pertaining to millitary affairs

https://www.interpol.int/en/How-we-work/Notices/About-Notices
I don't think that persons without reputational risk have their interests protected with any CBI program and especially the island's one. It's about intrinsic value of those programs - to which extent EU, UK, US but also Russia and China will have current visa regime and tolerate movement of bearers of CBI travel documents.

Following that logic, a low profile residence in preferred jurisdiction - country may be considered better option than those CBI programs.

 

[jafo]

mraleph said:
low profile
Click to expand...

is safe everywhere! Nothing to worry about.

 

[Martin Everson]

mraleph said:
The person can't be put on INTERPOL notice for any crime pertaining to millitary affairs
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Correct. Very good point.

mraleph said:
Following that logic, a low profile residence in preferred jurisdiction - country may be considered better option than those CBI programs.
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We are missing the point here. Can he firstly even get dual nationality as it stands as I said above ?

@SSV If I was in his situation I would just stay put in Cyprus and ride it out as second passport does not seem possible right? If they revoke your passport then jump for joy. Better to be stateless than to fight for a corrupt country like Ukraine. If someone was to ask me if I would fight for Bahamas I would jump into the water and take my chances with the sharks trying to get to Cuba.

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[jafo]

Martin Everson said:
Better to be stateless than to fight for a corrupt country like Ukraine. If someone was to ask me if I would fight for Bahamas I would jump into the water and take my chances with the sharks trying to get to Cuba.
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smi(&% rof/% Correction: We

Martin Everson said:
Can he firstly even get dual nationality as it stands as I said above ?
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Why not? Is it a physical impossibility? 🙄

Martin Everson said:
second passport does not seem possible right?
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Why not? 🙄

Martin Everson said:
If I was in his situation I would just stay put in Cyprus and ride it out
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but STILL put on my "parachute" (i.e. CBI or ANY other passport I can get my hands on) before the wings on the proverbial plane fall off 😉

 

[Martin Everson]

jafo said:
Why not?
Click to expand...

https://www.president.gov.ua/en/new...niciyuye-klyuchovij-zakonoproyekt-yakij-88465

jafo said:
Why not? Is it a physical impossibility?
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Depending on CBI program they make checks if your allowed by your own country to have a second passport and will reject the application. Also CBI's perform due dligence and often involve providing police clearance from home country which he might not be able to get if his a fighting age man outside the country 😕.

In any case if he also does wangle a second passport he needs to check Ukrainian laws on what penalties are for breaking the law by having dual citizenship. It could mean automatic lose of Ukrainian citizenship, fines, loss of access to any property, healthcare, services etc etc...who knows. Until the new law has made its way through the system its a big risk hence why I ask if the new law allowing dual citizenship has passed?

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Please note my posts should not be taken as financial or tax advice. Please seek professional advice in that respect.

 

[jafo]

I'm trying to help OP out here and save his life, so I have adopted this adage: "Tell them what you are going to tell them, tell them, then tell them what you told them.”
My answers are to illuminate OP's path (NOT directed at anyone) and make him realize that all that "ink on paper" is just that...BS on paper... OP needs to save his life by ANY means necessary... Having said that...here I go!

Martin Everson said:
Depending on CBI program they make checks if your allowed by your own country
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He inquires first. OP is at a crossroads! He can be as brutal and honest as he needs to be. His life is at stake! If the CBI can provide assurances in writing and stick to them, OP proceeds.

Martin Everson said:
Also CBI's perform due dligence and often involve providing police clearance from home country
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Or country of residence? In this case, Cyprus?

Martin Everson said:
In any case if he also does wangle a second passport he needs to check Ukrainian laws on what penalties are for breaking the law by having dual citizenship.
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What penalty could be worse than dying on the battlefield under the boots of an indomitable & unstoppable Russian killing machine? 🙄

Martin Everson said:
It could mean automatic lose of Ukrainian citizenship, fines, loss of access to any property, healthcare, services etc etc...who knows.
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Maybe others here think differently, but, IMHO, NONE of these "things" are worse than OP losing his life on the battlefield for an effeminate dancing clown like Zelenskyy! What am I missing here? 🙄

Martin Everson said:
Until the new law has made its way through the system its a big risk hence why I ask if the new law allowing dual citizenship has passed?
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Assume it has passed, and it "claims" that OP is compelled by "law" to come back and fight the Russians. Who in their right mind obeys an unjust law? 🙄

Lex iniusta non est lex.

PS. I'm trying to help out OP here. My responses are NOT directed to anyone except Zelenskyy and his other effeminate warmongering dancing sycophants.

Note: I may not have been alive yet, but my father made me watch this as a young kid. I didn't particularly care that the GOAT would consider me his "enemy," but he got it 100% right for everything else!
If I got to go down, I'm going to go down right here fighting those who try to get me to fight their enemy: