Putin critic Alexei Navalny, 47, dies in Arctic Circle jail
and what is your opinion?
Sorry, what is your proof for this? Do you have any documents proving any of his organizations were financed by the West?polonieth said:
Navalny is not a whistleblower; he was a CIA man used as a classic Western influence agent.
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No one in the West thinks or even claims Russians are queueing for bread. And those who think Putin is a facist have had this opinion for quite some time now. Likewise, those who support him will continue supporting him no matter what.polonieth said:
Interestingly 1 week after Putin gave the Tucker interview which reached 200 million+ people and made people start asking a few questions, plus Tucker's tour of Moscow that dispels the myth of "commies queuing for bread", then Navalny dies and the headlines are all about Putin being a fascist?
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Please don't ask logical questions, it was 100% Putin who killed him, no more questions please.
Navalny was a "Yale World Fellow" and co-founder of the Democratic Alternative aka DA!Jerry1911 said:
Sorry, what is your proof for this? Do you have any documents proving any of his organizations were financed by the West?
Even if this were true (I'm not saying it is or isn't) he raised some good points about corruption in Russia which were never addressed, and we all know why. Besides, there are plenty of other people in the opposition who are for sure not financed by the West but are against the current regime, for a good reason.
Btw the charges against him had nothing to do with him potentially being a CIA asset.
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rof/% rof/%polonieth said:
Navalny is not a whistleblower; he was a CIA man used as a classic Western influence agent.
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Perhaps that wasn't the goal at all.polonieth said:
He's a fringe figure who could never realistically drum up the support to create Moscow-Maidan, yet he was lauded across the Western press as their poster boy. Why?
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He became a Yale World Fellow in 2010, long after starting his anti-corruption work.polonieth said:
Navalny was a "Yale World Fellow" and co-founder of the Democratic Alternative aka DA!
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Perhaps Russia should've established an independent government anti-corruption entity decades ago like any other first world country so he wouldn't have had to get and/or raise support from the West.polonieth said:
What is the National Endowment for Democracy? A US government-controlled entity that sponsors opposition groups in adversarial countries.
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And they are not exactly having fun either, so what's your point? Like half of them are in exile in the West (where else - this is due to necessity, not affiliation) else they would've been killed a long time ago.polonieth said:
You kinda answered the question yourself here, though, by pointing out there are other opposition figures in Russia.
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Jerry1911 said:
Perhaps that wasn't the goal at all.
He became a Yale World Fellow in 2010, long after starting his anti-corruption work.
Perhaps Russia should've established an independent government anti-corruption entity decades ago like any other first world country so he wouldn't have had to get and/or raise support from the West.
But I suppose that's asking too much from such a corrupt sh*thole. I mean even in Romania you have Laura Kövesi for example. What do you think would happen to her if she were a Russian, in Russia? She would be dead or in exile.
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As Biden said “adjfejwkrfssddfdkwd”
I am just going by the history of Russia - nothing more, nothing less. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Anti-corruption stragies in general do not involve extorting people for lesser amount, but I am not surprised it's the first thing that came to your mind... lol.polonieth said:
"He literally had nowhere else to turn but the NED" Maybe he should have gone on Dragons Den? "$20 million for 5% in my anti-corruption business."
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I was waiting for this one - classic whataboutism used by the Soviets all the time: Whataboutism - Wikipediapolonieth said:
On a side note, the legend that is Coach Red Pill, aka Gonzalo Lira, didn't even get his own thread after he died in a Ukrainian prison. Yet Navalny did
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It's irrelevant as in any case he would still be alive if Russia were a first world country with half decent anti-corruption measures.
I understand where you are coming from.Jerry1911 said:
Perhaps that wasn't the goal at all.
He became a Yale World Fellow in 2010, long after starting his anti-corruption work.
Perhaps Russia should've established an independent government anti-corruption entity decades ago like any other first world country so he wouldn't have had to get and/or raise support from the West.
But I suppose that's asking too much from such a corrupt sh*thole. I mean even in Romania you have Laura Kövesi for example. If she were a Russian she would be dead or in exile.
And they are not exactly having fun either, so what's your point? Like half of them are in exile in the West (where else - this is due to necessity, not affiliation) else they would've been killed a long time ago.
Guys the uncomfortable truth is that the Russians (along with a couple of other nations) are simply not developed enough to be able to live in a society which allows for multiple political parties or better said differing opinions. They absolutely love having one person rule over them whilst being the biggest bootlickers on Earth claiming this one person is perfect and cannot ever be corrupt else it is all foreign propaganda. It would be funny if it weren't so sad 😕
P.S. Speaking of Kovesi, she has received numerous awards for her work - from the US, Sweden, Norway, France, et cetera. So going by your logic, which country is she exactly a puppet of? Or is she perhaps a puppet of McAfee Inc instead as she has received their award for fighting cybercrime? 🙄
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Jerry1911 said:
It's irrelevant as in any case he would still be alive if Russia were a first world country with half decent anti-corruption measures.
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That is not where I'm coming from and I do not claim or think, nor have I ever claimed or thought that the West has high morals and/or isn't corrupt.jafo said:
I understand where you are coming from.
Before 2003, I used to think EXACTLY like you! EXACTLY! So much so, that I sued the US government (civil case) because we (in the West) are NOT corrupt. The "communists", i.e. Russians, Chinese, Africa, Latin America, Middle East, etc., etc. are the corrupt ones. We in the West have high & impeccable morals. 🙄
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The main difference is that there is rule of law on a lower level, compared to the above mentioned countries.jafo said:
I truly believed in the Rule of Law etc etc even after WITNESSING countless injustices in courts from childhood until 2003. stupi#21
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Let's not bring them up for now as that would require its own multi-page topic. Personally I think both should be freed of all charges. However it is undeniable that Snowden stole government property - for a good reason, but it is still theft.jafo said:
Note: Even before Snowden or Assange came out I had personally witnessed the most egregious injustices and YET...for whatever delusional reason, I thought it could NEVER happen to me or that "those" other people deserved it. Maybe I am just too stupid. 🙄
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Is that a whataboutism?Jerry1911 said:
I was waiting for this one - classic whataboutism used by the Soviets all the time: Whataboutism - Wikipedia
Yes, they shouldn't have killed him (if they did - IMHO they probably have), but if you'd like to talk about Lira feel free to open a separate thread. I am however well aware something else is your intent here, and let's be honest, it's certainly not giving a crap about the now deceased Mr. Lira...
It's irrelevant as in any case he would still be alive if Russia were a first world country with half decent anti-corruption measures.
Even if the US somehow killed him the question then becomes how, as he was in probably the most remote and most secure Russian prison - in practice this would mean Russian counterintelligence failed to do its job.
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Then you just don't understand what whataboutism is or you are just pretending you don't. Looks to me as if it's the latter.polonieth said:
Is that a whataboutism?
To me it just highlights the hypocrisy of the USA.
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I just Googled and found plenty of articles about him before and after his death on Business Insider, The Independent, Newsweek, Yahoo News, Fox News, New York Post, and so on. True, it wasn't on BBC or CNN, but that is to be expected and that is why in the West we have plenty of other websites to choose from anyway.polonieth said:
Either way there was basically zero in the western media about it. The USA treated him as someone who didn't exist. Despite him being a US citizen.
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So you're telling me the US killed Navalny while he was in a maximum security prison in the Arctic? That would be a massive fail of Russian counterintelligence. No wonder the Russian authorities are not framing it this way either.
Undercover recording of the head of Navalny's organization, Vladimir Ashurkov, meeting with MI6 agent James William Thomas Ford.Jerry1911 said:
Sorry, what is your proof for this? Do you have any documents proving any of his organizations were financed by the West?
Even if this were true (I'm not saying it is or isn't) he raised some good points about corruption in Russia which were never addressed, and we all know why. Besides, there are plenty of other people in the opposition who are for sure not financed by the West but are against the current regime, and for a good reason.
Btw the charges against him had nothing to do with him potentially being a CIA asset.
P.S. If the CIA were to put all of Russia's opposition on its payroll they would run out of money quickly smi(&%
No one in the West thinks or even claims Russians are queueing for bread. And those who think Putin is a facist have had this opinion for quite some time now. Likewise, those who support him will continue supporting him no matter what.
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