I wanted to share my knowledge about how to fly under the radar when using EMI's. Everybody can benefit from it. The main message of this thread would be "don't put all your eggs in the same basket". I also wrote this because I read stories on the Internet of guys saying "I bought bitcoins and my bank closed my account". They are EMI that specialized in it. You should take advantage of it. Also, EMI it is a great opportunity to free yourself from the bank monopoly.
YOu must use an EMI which offer an account with a bitcoin wallet and FIAT wallet (£,$,€...) I will explain to you why later on.
Some EMI's that use bitcoin wallet with FIAT wallets: Wirex, Quppy, Spectrocoin, bitpanda, coinbase, coinmama, cex.io, coincorner, advcash. Since those ones include a bitcoin wallet, you will be able to buy much more bitcoins without risk. As you may know, no EMI are reported in the context of Automated Exchange of Information (AEOI, CRS).
So, for instance, if you open a Wirex account, you can use a Mastercard/visa to buy the equivalent of 5000 euros bitcoin without being contacted. WIrex account has a 30,000 $,£,€ limit for its FIAT wallet but no limit for the bitcoin wallet.
Using a politically correct EMI like Revolut
On the other hand, if you open a revolut account, and if you transfer money to kraken.com to buy bitcoin, by mentioning the word kraken.com in the description of the transfer, revolut is going to close your revolut account. If you have a revolut account, and if you want to buy bitcoin, you should transfer money directly to the bitcoin holder without mentioning anything related to bitcoin in the description of the transaction or you should transfer the money to an EMI that also have bitcoins wallets like Wirex, Quppy (see list above)
Revolut, transferwise, paxum, payoneer are not bitcoin friendly.
Moving money to Georgia
From my observation, Revolut, transferwise monitor their customer a lot. However, they can be used as intermediaries. If you want to transfer to a bank account in Georgia. I would not use transferwise because it would be a single point of failure. There are companies in Georgia that buy bitcoins. So, you can sell your bitcoins and you can deposit them in a bank account in Georgia. Seriously I think it is the best solution. Don't look for online only solution.
Sell Bitcoin with Georgian Lari (GEL) - LocalBitcoins
If you get your money in bitcoin, you may want to use a bitcoin mixer to anonymize your source.
Monitoring of EMI's
Several EMIs use bitcoin wallets, it is a great opportunity. So, I have found that developers in EMI didn't create programs to monitor transactions of cryptocurrencies for several reasons:
1. It is too volatile. the equivalent of $100 can be .011 and then, it can be 0.08 ... etc...etc..
2. It is not a legal requirement to monitor Bitcoin transactions. Whatever the country, if you own a business that use cryptocurrency you don't need to report your crypto balance. No government asks company to provide a crypto financial statement at the end of the year.
So, as long as you keep your money in bitcoin, you are safe. You can read some articles on the internet, saying that it is easy to trace bitcoins. It is dumb because FIAT money (dollars, euros) can be easily tracked if we compare it to bitcoin. To me it looks like anti bitcoin propaganda.
How to stay under the radar:
Unfortunately, the more you have money to transfer and the more you need EMI accounts on different website. You have to deposit your money in many EMI's for several reasons:
1. If one EMI suspends your account it is not vital.
2. If they ask you to justify the source of your funds, it is easier to find an explanation for 5,000 euros than 50,000 euros when you own an account as an individual.
3. Other EMI will not be aware of the total amount of money you own.
4. The amounts of your transactions will be smaller.
Case study
BTC/SEPA accounts for individuals
So, let's imagine, the worst-case scenario, you want to withdraw the equivalent of 1,000,000 euros stored as bitcoin
You could use 20 bitcoin/euro accounts where you would deposit 25,000 for a total of 500,000. So, 500,000 euros seems like a big sum. But in the EMI eyes, they will only see that you own 25,000 euros on their account, which look like the savings of your regular European mom-and-pop saving. You would end up with 20 accounts. It is not complicated to manage. 25000 euros can be transferred via 5 transactions of 5000 euros each. Within one month you can move 500,000 euros to your 20 bitcoin/euro accounts. So, then you can withdraw the money using the mastercard/visa debit card of one of those EMI.
This is the best system because when you transfer bitcoin to those companies, you don't leave a footprint in the real banking system.
BTC/SEPA accounts for companies
Using this system above, you can also sometimes open a corporate account, this is the case of quppy. So rather than owning the BTC/euro account as an individual, the company may own the account, so they will accept large transactions and if you have a company, it is easy to find an explanation for the source of money if you have an ecommerce shop for instance. let's imagine it would an ecommerce shop that accepts bitcoins. Don't be a fool, if you open a corporate account, always tell that you do a clean job like selling teddy bears. In the past, I tried to open a bank account at bankera, and I wanted to be honest. I told them the truth by saying that I got my money from the affiliate program of an adult website. They blacklisted me. This means that I even don't have the right to open an individual account. stupid me.
example of an BTC emi that accepts businesses:
https://support.quppy.com/hc/en-us/articles/360026820792-What-is-Quppy-BusinessUnfortunately, they never mention the accepted jurisdictions. For instance, would they accept a Georgian company? Good question. So, in this case, I think you can accept up to 50,000-80,000 euros on a monthly basis.
Never forget that the banking system is not fair or moral. Those people follow stupid AML/KYC/Reporting rules. They don't think about what they do. It is like a big game. Even if it is serious because it is about money, when you observe EMI, you discover that they consider our transactions some sort of video game where the money amounts are credits.
Solution that can be used as a part 2
There is 500,000 euros in bitcoins left. you can use localbitcoin to directly sell your bitcoins to many invididuals/companies in europe without intermediary. It will take time because you must build a trustful relationship by starting with small transactions and increasing the amount of transactions as you see that the individual in the other end is trustworthy. The youtube video describes how you sell your bitcoin. In this case, it would be worth it to set up an offshore company, and get a SEPA for your corporate bank in a real bank in Cyprus. 500,000 will be equal to the turnover of a normal business.
I must admit that there is a weak link in this second part. You must interact with MANY people to convert bitcoin in money because most of those people accept to transfer small amounts. Also, you leave a footprint in the regular banking system as many people among those individual use regular bank accounts. The best would be to find companies who use a corporate bank account.
I think it takes 1 year to move the equivalent of 1 million euros because of on a monthly basis, the transfer would be around 84000 euros. It is not that much.
Keep the behavior of monitoring algorithms into account:
It is easy to develop a program that triggers an alert when a transaction exceeds a certain amount of money.
It is east to develop a program that triggers an alert when the balance of a FIAT account exceeds a certain amount of money
It is much more difficult to create a CRON job that checks the past transactions of an account and calculate the total. 1/ you have to program that will run every weeks or months. you may need to set up a server for this as the program will have to go through tons of data.
So, here is the most plausible situation for monitoring. An individual gets an alert when someone exceeds a limit or an individual looks up at a ranking of the customers with highest balance in the system.
Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
YOu must use an EMI which offer an account with a bitcoin wallet and FIAT wallet (£,$,€...) I will explain to you why later on.
Some EMI's that use bitcoin wallet with FIAT wallets: Wirex, Quppy, Spectrocoin, bitpanda, coinbase, coinmama, cex.io, coincorner, advcash. Since those ones include a bitcoin wallet, you will be able to buy much more bitcoins without risk. As you may know, no EMI are reported in the context of Automated Exchange of Information (AEOI, CRS).
So, for instance, if you open a Wirex account, you can use a Mastercard/visa to buy the equivalent of 5000 euros bitcoin without being contacted. WIrex account has a 30,000 $,£,€ limit for its FIAT wallet but no limit for the bitcoin wallet.
Using a politically correct EMI like Revolut
On the other hand, if you open a revolut account, and if you transfer money to kraken.com to buy bitcoin, by mentioning the word kraken.com in the description of the transfer, revolut is going to close your revolut account. If you have a revolut account, and if you want to buy bitcoin, you should transfer money directly to the bitcoin holder without mentioning anything related to bitcoin in the description of the transaction or you should transfer the money to an EMI that also have bitcoins wallets like Wirex, Quppy (see list above)
Revolut, transferwise, paxum, payoneer are not bitcoin friendly.
Moving money to Georgia
From my observation, Revolut, transferwise monitor their customer a lot. However, they can be used as intermediaries. If you want to transfer to a bank account in Georgia. I would not use transferwise because it would be a single point of failure. There are companies in Georgia that buy bitcoins. So, you can sell your bitcoins and you can deposit them in a bank account in Georgia. Seriously I think it is the best solution. Don't look for online only solution.
Sell Bitcoin with Georgian Lari (GEL) - LocalBitcoins
If you get your money in bitcoin, you may want to use a bitcoin mixer to anonymize your source.
Monitoring of EMI's
Several EMIs use bitcoin wallets, it is a great opportunity. So, I have found that developers in EMI didn't create programs to monitor transactions of cryptocurrencies for several reasons:
1. It is too volatile. the equivalent of $100 can be .011 and then, it can be 0.08 ... etc...etc..
2. It is not a legal requirement to monitor Bitcoin transactions. Whatever the country, if you own a business that use cryptocurrency you don't need to report your crypto balance. No government asks company to provide a crypto financial statement at the end of the year.
So, as long as you keep your money in bitcoin, you are safe. You can read some articles on the internet, saying that it is easy to trace bitcoins. It is dumb because FIAT money (dollars, euros) can be easily tracked if we compare it to bitcoin. To me it looks like anti bitcoin propaganda.
How to stay under the radar:
Unfortunately, the more you have money to transfer and the more you need EMI accounts on different website. You have to deposit your money in many EMI's for several reasons:
1. If one EMI suspends your account it is not vital.
2. If they ask you to justify the source of your funds, it is easier to find an explanation for 5,000 euros than 50,000 euros when you own an account as an individual.
3. Other EMI will not be aware of the total amount of money you own.
4. The amounts of your transactions will be smaller.
Case study
BTC/SEPA accounts for individuals
So, let's imagine, the worst-case scenario, you want to withdraw the equivalent of 1,000,000 euros stored as bitcoin
You could use 20 bitcoin/euro accounts where you would deposit 25,000 for a total of 500,000. So, 500,000 euros seems like a big sum. But in the EMI eyes, they will only see that you own 25,000 euros on their account, which look like the savings of your regular European mom-and-pop saving. You would end up with 20 accounts. It is not complicated to manage. 25000 euros can be transferred via 5 transactions of 5000 euros each. Within one month you can move 500,000 euros to your 20 bitcoin/euro accounts. So, then you can withdraw the money using the mastercard/visa debit card of one of those EMI.
This is the best system because when you transfer bitcoin to those companies, you don't leave a footprint in the real banking system.
BTC/SEPA accounts for companies
Using this system above, you can also sometimes open a corporate account, this is the case of quppy. So rather than owning the BTC/euro account as an individual, the company may own the account, so they will accept large transactions and if you have a company, it is easy to find an explanation for the source of money if you have an ecommerce shop for instance. let's imagine it would an ecommerce shop that accepts bitcoins. Don't be a fool, if you open a corporate account, always tell that you do a clean job like selling teddy bears. In the past, I tried to open a bank account at bankera, and I wanted to be honest. I told them the truth by saying that I got my money from the affiliate program of an adult website. They blacklisted me. This means that I even don't have the right to open an individual account. stupid me.
example of an BTC emi that accepts businesses:
https://support.quppy.com/hc/en-us/articles/360026820792-What-is-Quppy-BusinessUnfortunately, they never mention the accepted jurisdictions. For instance, would they accept a Georgian company? Good question. So, in this case, I think you can accept up to 50,000-80,000 euros on a monthly basis.
Never forget that the banking system is not fair or moral. Those people follow stupid AML/KYC/Reporting rules. They don't think about what they do. It is like a big game. Even if it is serious because it is about money, when you observe EMI, you discover that they consider our transactions some sort of video game where the money amounts are credits.
Solution that can be used as a part 2
There is 500,000 euros in bitcoins left. you can use localbitcoin to directly sell your bitcoins to many invididuals/companies in europe without intermediary. It will take time because you must build a trustful relationship by starting with small transactions and increasing the amount of transactions as you see that the individual in the other end is trustworthy. The youtube video describes how you sell your bitcoin. In this case, it would be worth it to set up an offshore company, and get a SEPA for your corporate bank in a real bank in Cyprus. 500,000 will be equal to the turnover of a normal business.
I must admit that there is a weak link in this second part. You must interact with MANY people to convert bitcoin in money because most of those people accept to transfer small amounts. Also, you leave a footprint in the regular banking system as many people among those individual use regular bank accounts. The best would be to find companies who use a corporate bank account.
I think it takes 1 year to move the equivalent of 1 million euros because of on a monthly basis, the transfer would be around 84000 euros. It is not that much.
Keep the behavior of monitoring algorithms into account:
It is easy to develop a program that triggers an alert when a transaction exceeds a certain amount of money.
It is east to develop a program that triggers an alert when the balance of a FIAT account exceeds a certain amount of money
It is much more difficult to create a CRON job that checks the past transactions of an account and calculate the total. 1/ you have to program that will run every weeks or months. you may need to set up a server for this as the program will have to go through tons of data.
So, here is the most plausible situation for monitoring. An individual gets an alert when someone exceeds a limit or an individual looks up at a ranking of the customers with highest balance in the system.
Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
