How to move money - Untraceable

[Alain Delon]

Hi,

First of all, let me say that my purpose is not money laundering, but rather ensuring that if creditor comes after my money, they can't trace it to the offshore trust / company where I am parking it.

Problem: if you just do bank account transfer, with a simple subpoena of the bank statement, someone can know where the money went to

Solution:
1. On a personal brokerage account: Buy extremely illiquid financial assets at market price. This might take a few days or weeks due to the illiquidity.
2. On a trust/company brokerage account (with the same provider): create a buy order for a fraction of the market value of the illiquid asset (say 10% of the market value)
3. On the personal brokerage account: sell the illiquid asset as a market order (after ensuring that the ask in 2. is the only one)
4. On the trust/company brokerage account: sell the illiquid asset at market value. This might take a few days or weeks due to the illiquidity.

The way things now look: The personal account suffered terrible loss in trading securities, and the trust/company account had fantastic gains in trading securities. => a loss and a profit, but no transfer.

Questions:
1. Has anyone tried this?
2. Any other idea?

 

[Electro]

Get a Kraken account
buy monero
sent monero to a wallet
later sent it to kraken account in other name -buy fiat with it
cash out
done

 

[FinTech Avenger]

Alain Delon said:
Hi,

First of all, let me say that my purpose is not money laundering, but rather ensuring that if creditor comes after my money, they can't trace it to the offshore trust / company where I am parking it.

Problem: if you just do bank account transfer, with a simple subpoena of the bank statement, someone can know where the money went to

Solution:
1. On a personal brokerage account: Buy extremely illiquid financial assets at market price. This might take a few days or weeks due to the illiquidity.
2. On a trust/company brokerage account (with the same provider): create a buy order for a fraction of the market value of the illiquid asset (say 10% of the market value)
3. On the personal brokerage account: sell the illiquid asset as a market order (after ensuring that the ask in 2. is the only one)
4. On the trust/company brokerage account: sell the illiquid asset at market value. This might take a few days or weeks due to the illiquidity.

The way things now look: The personal account suffered terrible loss in trading securities, and the trust/company account had fantastic gains in trading securities. => a loss and a profit, but no transfer.

Questions:
1. Has anyone tried this?
2. Any other idea?
Click to expand...

This is called "mirror trading" and is considered form of money laundering, which it absolutely is- Deutsche Bank, Mirror Trades, and More Russian Threads

Chances you'd be busted are very high, especially given your plan has 2 potentially critical points of failure:
1) Dealing through the same brokerage firm would draw unwanted attention from MLRO and may result in assets freeze and SAR to the FIU
2) Transacting in illiquid securities would be a very clear indication that you are going to launder some illicit money

 

[reesek]

crypto and non(mis)reportable accounts is the way to go
what volumes are you targeting?

 

[Alain Delon]

@Incorporatior: If this happens (and you said it most likely will), I could just show the proof of funds, and income tax statement to clear it up, no?

@Electro: How much you can move this way? 1m? 10m? 100m?

 

[Electro]

the bottleneck here is the limit of the exchanger, but the limits are set per day/month.
so you could repeat that action, also you could set up various accounts, so for the creative mind sky is the limit 🙂

 

[reesek]

the crypto market is really deep now, not only exchanges but otc you can trade hundreds of millions

 

[Alain Delon]

If using crypto, would the statement of one Kraken account transferring to another Kraken account be usually accepted as proof of fund by a financial institution? I would not want my clean money to become dirty money 😛

 

[Electro]

...you did not get the point
it is NOT a tracable transaction from one kraken account to another
once it has been monero there is no more trace whatsoever
less so if you do not sent the full amount from a wallet of a kraken account to another
you can make an anonymus monero wallet to park it and then send random amounts to any exchanger
then put it back to fiat.
if and how you want to declare the now untraced fiat is a whole new story.

 

[Electro]

or maybe i did not get your point:
because in your original plan the loss would have been "bad luck speculating"
in my plan of course the money would have been sent away.so questions may arise.
but if that is your point then the threat should be named:
"how to steal money ant tell the owner it was bad luck speculating"

 

[Alain Delon]

Maybe I should have made it clearer, my case is a possible divorce case where I am trying to ensure my funds remain untouchable.
I guess I will need to read more about how Monero works.
I definitely want to avoid by clean money becoming "suspicious money"

 

[Electro]

oh okay - i thought of a completly different scenario 🙂
good luck with the mariage while it lasts

 

[santogrial]

Electro said:
1. Get a Kraken account
2. buy monero
3. sent monero to a wallet
4. later sent it to kraken account in other name -buy fiat with it
5. cash out
done
Click to expand...

2 questions for this scenario:
1. Imo somebody can trace the transactions on the blockchain and see that you are classically laundering and moving funds from one place to another?
2. When you cash out a red flag pops out, what is the source of the crypto? You bought it? How did you get the money to buy it? somebody gifted it to you? If then who and why etc etc.
So i think if you are part of an investigation this does not stick.
Prove me otherwise 😀