How to make bitcoin untraceable?

[ceptev]

I've been in the iptv business for a bit and I want to make sure my satoshis aren't traceable back to me.. I know it's difficult to trace, but I've read it's not impossible?

I've been using a non-kyc payment gateway for btc payments. Then I've transferred the funds from there to my btc wallet. I've also paid for servers etc using by wallet.
So how should I proceed before I cash them out?
I was thinking of using a public exchanger, swap my btc into XMR and send them to my Monero wallet, then swap them back to BTC and send them to a new and clean wallet before i cash out.
That would render them completely untracable, right?

 

[Jorozey]

If you use a public exchange, you should be sure that it will not force you to go through mandatory KYC. For example, I can point you to MEXC.com It is a popular non-KYC crypto exchange with a 10BTC daily withdrawal limit for non-verified users. You could sell your BTC and buy mixed BTC from the exchange back and withdraw it to your newly created wallet address - that would be enough to become a non-KYC BTC holder.

I hope your BTC you currently own is not involved with any dark origin, if so it would be nice to use a BTC mixer like wasabi or unijoin first.

*Just to clarify, your BTC doesn't have to be criminal to be mixed through mixers, mixers help mask your privacy to some extent 99% and that's why people use them.

Last edited: May 24, 2024

 

[diatessaron]

ceptev said:
I've been in the iptv business for a bit and I want to make sure my satoshis aren't traceable back to me.. I know it's difficult to trace, but I've read it's not impossible?

I've been using a non-kyc payment gateway for btc payments. Then I've transferred the funds from there to my btc wallet. I've also paid for servers etc using by wallet.
So how should I proceed before I cash them out?
I was thinking of using a public exchanger, swap my btc into XMR and send them to my Monero wallet, then swap them back to BTC and send them to a new and clean wallet before i cash out.
That would render them completely untracable, right?
Click to expand...

Short answer: you can't. In 2024 it's not even difficult to trace, there's too many companies and tools that make a living out of that and it's all bots figuring out where you send your coins. You can try and use a mixer but mixers don't last long and when they disappear they usually take users funds with them (not necessarily because of their own choice).

Your solution is what you already mentioned. Swap it to XMR and then go from there. There has to be some delays before each transaction and I'd send in smaller amounts from my XMR wallet over a period of time. I know it's complicated but we, the legit ones have to do that to keep our privacy while criminals out there are roaming free.

 

[wellington]

ceptev said:
I've been in the iptv business for a bit and I want to make sure my satoshis aren't traceable back to me.. I know it's difficult to trace, but I've read it's not impossible?

I've been using a non-kyc payment gateway for btc payments. Then I've transferred the funds from there to my btc wallet. I've also paid for servers etc using by wallet.
So how should I proceed before I cash them out?
I was thinking of using a public exchanger, swap my btc into XMR and send them to my Monero wallet, then swap them back to BTC and send them to a new and clean wallet before i cash out.
That would render them completely untracable, right?
Click to expand...

I doubt you can because you've at one point likely connected to them to you either directly or indirectly.

But conceivably if a new IPTV company were established (is that illegal? - i knew some brits in that game about half a decade ago) and a new wallet was established and payments came in, and they were atomic swapped to XMR and then left and moved gradually and following monero privacy preservation protocols and then swapped back to BTC then the new BTC you got would not tie to your old BTC, but could be worse, could be tied to human trafficking, pig butchering etc...

I was once testing out a new privacy protocol on ETH (raid i think it was called) commercially to see if we should make a investment in the underlying protocol development.

Anyway we moved a tiny amount into it, left, and then forgot about 6 months later came across and withdrew, at some point it was paid to a vendor as part of ops and they flagged and rejected the specific ETH... I imagine this will occur more often in the future.

Honestly better to just move to a region where something is clearly legal, and then sell to a region where its legal, and don't play with fire (laundering/layering) even if its privacy concentrated Governments have gone cocopops for laundering as they get to seize all of the Wealth to re-distribute to their under-funded state apparatus where they've bankrupted themselves and bending over backwards trying to pay their interest.

 

[Joukilop]

You just have to use 2 differents bridges.

One for move your crypto to XMR,

Then an another one XMR -> ETH (for example)


EDIT : use different amont each time.

 

[JohnLocke]

You may also have a look here
https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/threads/bitcoin-mixer-”“-detailed-guide-how-it-works.36252/
It may possibly help you in a way.

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[Lord Palmerstone]

diatessaron said:
Short answer: ..................................................................................................... but we, the legit ones have to do that to keep our privacy while criminals out there are roaming free.
Click to expand...

By 'criminals out there' ............. you are of course referring to 'Politicians, Central banks and Western Governments'

 

[gh0p]

ceptev said:
I've been in the iptv business for a bit and I want to make sure my satoshis aren't traceable back to me.. I know it's difficult to trace, but I've read it's not impossible?

I've been using a non-kyc payment gateway for btc payments. Then I've transferred the funds from there to my btc wallet. I've also paid for servers etc using by wallet.
So how should I proceed before I cash them out?
I was thinking of using a public exchanger, swap my btc into XMR and send them to my Monero wallet, then swap them back to BTC and send them to a new and clean wallet before i cash out.
That would render them completely untracable, right?
Click to expand...

Your BTC wallet is already burned. I highly suggest you start cleaning now, getting new servers anonymously, anything that you paid through that wallet clean/destroy etc.

Jorozey said:
If you use a public exchange, you should be sure that it will not force you to go through mandatory KYC. For example, I can point you to MEXC.com It is a popular non-KYC crypto exchange with a 10BTC daily withdrawal limit for non-verified users. You could sell your BTC and buy mixed BTC from the exchange back and withdraw it to your newly created wallet address - that would be enough to become a non-KYC BTC holder.

I hope your BTC you currently own is not involved with any dark origin, if so it would be nice to use a BTC mixer like wasabi or unijoin first.

*Just to clarify, your BTC doesn't have to be criminal to be mixed through mixers, mixers help mask your privacy to some extent 99% and that's why people use them.
Click to expand...

Don't use mixers of any sort. The only thing you are doing is dirtying up your coins. Just because they don't know whose is whose that doesn't mean it is not suspicious. Poorly mixer coins are usually with high AML risk and where they are not - it is only a matter of time. There is no security in mixers and it is a matter of time for interested parties to acquire the centralized mixer database (who owns what BTC) which is the only selling point in a mixer anyway.

Simply using non-kyc exchanges is not enough. They are still on traceable chains.

diatessaron said:
Swap it to XMR and then go from there. There has to be some delays before each transaction and I'd send in smaller amounts from my XMR wallet over a period of time.
Click to expand...

Swapping BTC to XMR to BTC (or other coin) can be good for low/lower medium risk operations if done with correct techniques, one of which mentioned by the commentator above.

Joukilop said:
You just have to use 2 differents bridges.

One for move your crypto to XMR,

Then an another one XMR -> ETH (for example)


EDIT : use different amont each time.
Click to expand...

BTC > XMR > BTC/ETH/USDT doesn't guarantee true anonymity but it can confuse the court room making it very hard to prove.

If your goal is not to enter one then this is not the way as there are many other factors to consider. As wellington mentioned there is also an issue of receiving dirty/tainted coins which is more likely to happen with a no kyc method such as atomic swaps.

Last edited: Jun 4, 2024

 

[aniglo22]

gh0p said:
Your BTC wallet is already burned. I highly suggest you start cleaning now, getting new servers anonymously, anything that you paid through that wallet clean/destroy etc.

Don't use mixers of any sort. The only thing you are doing is dirtying up your coins. Just because they don't know whose is whose that doesn't mean it is not suspicious. Poorly mixer coins are usually with high AML risk and where they are not - it is only a matter of time. There is no security in mixers and it is a matter of time for interested parties to acquire the centralized mixer database (who owns what BTC) which is the only selling point in a mixer anyway.

Simply using non-kyc exchanges is not enough.

Swapping BTC to XMR to BTC can be good for low/lower medium risk operations if done with correct techniques. It doesn't guarantee true anonymity but it can confuse the court room making it very hard to prove. If your goal is not to enter one then this is not the way as there are many other factors to consider.
Click to expand...

There are certain mixers/services which clean your coins and make you pass aml .

 

[gh0p]

aniglo22 said:
There are certain mixers/services which clean your coins and make you pass aml .
Click to expand...

That is why I said poorly made mixers have poor AML scores.

gh0p said:
Poorly mixer coins are usually with high AML risk and where they are not - it is only a matter of time.
Click to expand...

It is true it is only a matter of time. What these mixers do where you get clean AML is they pool clean coins from clean sources, cleaning the end result in the wallets themselves (reducing AML score this way). That is it. There is no black magic or secret code.

This is good for the time being however once more and more transactions get flagged because lets be honest if you need to use a BTC mixer you would be fucking up somewhere else and triggering financial red flags, then the risk of those wallets provided by the mixers is changed retrospectively and throughout (including all wallets that have transacted with). That is why a clean wallet you can have today and tomorrow wake up and see chainalysis has added it to their database and your coins are once again dirty. If you have the luck not to have any coins you will have the luck of having a report on your, now dirty, wallet somewhere in some agency. It then very easily leads to further investigations.

 

[aniglo22]

gh0p said:
That is why I said poorly made mixers have poor AML scores.


It is true it is only a matter of time. What these mixers do where you get clean AML is they pool clean coins from clean sources, cleaning the end result in the wallets themselves (reducing AML score this way). That is it. There is no black magic or secret code.

This is good for the time being however once more and more transactions get flagged because lets be honest if you need to use a BTC mixer you would be f*****g up somewhere else and triggering financial red flags, then the risk of those wallets provided by the mixers is changed retrospectively and throughout (including all wallets that have transacted with). That is why a clean wallet you can have today and tomorrow wake up and see chainalysis has added it to their database and your coins are once again dirty. If you have the luck not to have any coins you will have the luck of having a report on your, now dirty, wallet somewhere in some agency. It then very easily leads to further investigations.
Click to expand...

So how some of these "cleaning" services work . You send them dirty coins . They have coins on exchanges like binance etc.. and send from the exchange to your new wallet .

 

[gh0p]

aniglo22 said:
So how some of these "cleaning" services work . You send them dirty coins . They have coins on exchanges like binance etc.. and send from the exchange to your new wallet .
Click to expand...

Which then gets traced? I am not sure what you are trying to convince or what message you are trying to convey. Unless you don't understand how it works, you are a government agent or are owner of such service, there is no upside to using a BTC mixer of any kind.

You do know that majority of these accounts are opened with fake IDs right? They are clean now but wait until Binance flags them. All addresses then get put under the microscope. Very valuable information is extracted this way and hence why US pushed to monitor all transactions. In many cases for LE it is easier to detect outflows into accounts (then buy cars, luxury items...) by various methods such as posing and working with as cash by mail senders on P2P websites. "Suspicious" money coming in is also very vague enough vague to say "this started our investigation" - perfect for building parallel constructions on cases. Many of the intelligence gathering ways are left to be as is this way rather than getting burned by catching everyone using it.

 

[wellington]

gh0p said:
Which then gets traced? I am not sure what you are trying to convince or what message you are trying to convey. Unless you don't understand how it works, you are a government agent or are owner of such service, there is no upside to using a BTC mixer of any kind.

You do know that majority of these accounts are opened with fake IDs right? They are clean now but wait until Binance flags them. All addresses then get put under the microscope. Very valuable information is extracted this way and hence why US pushed to monitor all transactions. In many cases for LE it is easier to detect outflows into accounts (then buy cars, luxury items...) by various methods such as posing and working with as cash by mail senders on P2P websites. "Suspicious" money coming in is also very vague enough vague to say "this started our investigation" - perfect for building parallel constructions on cases. Many of the intelligence gathering ways are left to be as is this way rather than getting burned by catching everyone using it.
Click to expand...

True on that last part - honey pots - used for targeted enforcement.

Technically the only way to dirty the waters is fly by the night exchanges with high transaction throughput - those used to pop up all the time from observation and then rug and disappear - but from a purely optical point of view - they'd burn their own drives due to their illegal motives so the evidence is conflated to utter chaos.

But like I mentioned above better to not do anything illegal or mix with illegal funds because they are looking specifically for people to target to set examples.

With the IPTV funds already in existence if the act is illegal (I don't know) I'd imagine they are burned already.

- also one thing I am unsure over is the US increasingly charging for “International money laundering” - I am not entirely clued up on the law itself but they seem to be incorporating people and tokens/crypto in those cases whereby there is zero to low footprint in the US - mainly as they can civil forfeiture in rem the funds without any due process or charges - every little buck helps the treasury

 

[wellington]

"Honey Pots" -> Waiting to pounce.

WEIDONG GUAN -> Epoch Times -> Virtual Debit Cards loaded with Crypto -> https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/media/1354021/dl

 

[Joukilop]

gh0p said:
Your BTC wallet is already burned. I highly suggest you start cleaning now, getting new servers anonymously, anything that you paid through that wallet clean/destroy etc.


Don't use mixers of any sort. The only thing you are doing is dirtying up your coins. Just because they don't know whose is whose that doesn't mean it is not suspicious. Poorly mixer coins are usually with high AML risk and where they are not - it is only a matter of time. There is no security in mixers and it is a matter of time for interested parties to acquire the centralized mixer database (who owns what BTC) which is the only selling point in a mixer anyway.

Simply using non-kyc exchanges is not enough. They are still on traceable chains.


Swapping BTC to XMR to BTC (or other coin) can be good for low/lower medium risk operations if done with correct techniques, one of which mentioned by the commentator above.

BTC > XMR > BTC/ETH/USDT doesn't guarantee true anonymity but it can confuse the court room making it very hard to prove.

If your goal is not to enter one then this is not the way as there are many other factors to consider. As wellington mentioned there is also an issue of receiving dirty/tainted coins which is more likely to happen with a no kyc method such as atomic swaps.
Click to expand...

Sorry to say, but what's ur saying is wrong about my message.

If you use BTC -> XMR -> ETH (or any other crypto) with different amont $

Example :

I bridge 1000$ (BTC) -> 1000$ (XMR)
Then 600$ (XMR) -> 600$ (ETH)
Then 400$ (XMR) -> 400$ (ETH)

You are 100% anonymous. None can find you. never. ever!!!

 

[gh0p]

Joukilop said:
Sorry to say, but what's ur saying is wrong about my message.

If you use BTC -> XMR -> ETH (or any other crypto) with different amont $

Example :

I bridge 1000$ (BTC) -> 1000$ (XMR)
Then 600$ (XMR) -> 600$ (ETH)
Then 400$ (XMR) -> 400$ (ETH)

You are 100% anonymous. None can find you. never. ever!!!
Click to expand...

I never said it was wrong. Your risk tolerance might be low but for some of us that is not an option. I also said

gh0p said:
Swapping BTC to XMR to BTC (or other coin) can be good for low/lower medium risk operations if done with correct techniques, one of which mentioned by the commentator above.

BTC > XMR > BTC/ETH/USDT doesn't guarantee true anonymity but it can confuse the court room making it very hard to prove.

If your goal is not to enter one then this is not the way as there are many other factors to consider.
Click to expand...

Pay attention to the bolded words as I use my words carefully.

Joukilop said:
I bridge 1000$ (BTC) -> 1000$ (XMR)
Then 600$ (XMR) -> 600$ (ETH)
Then 400$ (XMR) -> 400$ (ETH)

You are 100% anonymous. None can find you. never. ever!!!
Click to expand...

Sure never. Just because you have discovered a method used for some time that doesn't mean there is no flaw in it. Usually you find out when it is too late. As I said there are many other factors to consider if one decides to use this way from multiple angles like OS-specific, network-specific, coin-specific and so on.

 

[mraleph]

Joukilop said:
You just have to use 2 differents bridges.

One for move your crypto to XMR,

Then an another one XMR -> ETH (for example)


EDIT : use different amont each time.
Click to expand...

Joukilop said:
Sorry to say, but what's ur saying is wrong about my message.

If you use BTC -> XMR -> ETH (or any other crypto) with different amont $

Example :

I bridge 1000$ (BTC) -> 1000$ (XMR)
Then 600$ (XMR) -> 600$ (ETH)
Then 400$ (XMR) -> 400$ (ETH)

You are 100% anonymous. None can find you. never. ever!!!
Click to expand...

I'm observing this and a thread that I started about crypto assets AML compliance.

Assuming that origin isn't a problem - by not being detected not by a process itself, what would be declared as a SOF in a scenario you proposed?

What about conversion moment - crypto to fiat?

If by any chance origin is compromised at any moment in future, there are several taxable events with due and unpaid taxes, layering and laundering 🙄

 

[Joukilop]

mraleph said:
I'm observing this and a thread that I started about crypto assets AML compliance.

Assuming that origin isn't a problem - by not being detected not by a process itself, what would be declared as a SOF in a scenario you proposed?

What about conversion moment - crypto to fiat?

If by any chance origin is compromised at any moment in future, there are several taxable events with due and unpaid taxes, layering and laundering 🙄
Click to expand...

Im actually working on my cashout, and it's terrible... Banks want to know everything , even when you sleep or not (lol).

Im working with a lawyer and his confident with my file. Me too cannot provide any sof.

If you want, we can talk in DM, will tell you what/how Im doing my stuff (but didn't succed yet.) But Im positive too now

 

[JohnLocke]

Joukilop said:
Im working with a lawyer and his confident with my file. Me too cannot provide any sof.
Click to expand...

You have found a lawyer who will help you obtain SOF for the cryptocurrencies you have, or what exactly can the lawyer help you with?

I would like to understand it a bit better.

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[Jorozey]

mraleph said:
Assuming that origin isn't a problem - by not being detected not by a process itself, what would be declared as a SOF in a scenario you proposed?
Click to expand...

When filling out the declaration of origin of the funds, your accountant fills in "Proceeds from the sale or exchange of shares, shares, compensatory instruments, investment bonds and other financial assets" and acquisition price 0. You will pay X% gains tax on the entire amount depending on what the % gain tax is in your country but you will receive the money by bank transfer and this is your best option to continue spending them legally.

mraleph said:
What about conversion moment - crypto to fiat?
Click to expand...

I don't understand the problem here? Do you need an OTC desk/exchange or what?

mraleph said:
If by any chance origin is compromised at any moment in future, there are several taxable events with due and unpaid taxes, layering and laundering 🙄
Click to expand...

You hope it never gets there. I know a certain amount of people with these concerns, so far I have not heard any of them having a problem.