Anonymous offshore company and EMI how?
- Thread starter lostman
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You need to go back to the fundamentals. It is still very much possible. However what do you want to achieve i.e do active business with the company or just have ownership of assets via the company. Doing active business with the company and staying anonymous is not so easy. Holding assets and staying anonymous is very easy. It requires an expensive setup and an EMI/PSP not based in any western country.
I agree somehow with @Martin Everson there is a difference between a active trading company and a holding company. The latter will be "easy" to stay safe with in regards to privacy!
I'm aware of what we discussed earlier that pricing based on the value of asset...
It's not about one case and also no one-off thing (make an investment and you're done for good).
However, say you want to hold "anonymously" (referring to
) a property in western/central europe worth 1M EUR?
It's not about one case and also no one-off thing (make an investment and you're done for good).
However, say you want to hold "anonymously" (referring to
) a property in western/central europe worth 1M EUR?
The cheapest solution is just hold the property in an offshore company, retain bearer shares and have no bank account for the company. Check if property registry allows this.
Other solutions cost more money.
Other solutions cost more money.
european registry (at least those I know something about) typically contains publicly available scans of contracts which contains the identification of acting person
also the property must be paid from (typically local) bank account which means UBO is revealed to the bank and reported
maybe there are still countries with non-public registry and where you can buy a house for cash, but this is hardly︀ possible in europe
can you present other solutions that you're saying cost more?
also the property must be paid from (typically local) bank account which means UBO is revealed to the bank and reported
maybe there are still countries with non-public registry and where you can buy a house for cash, but this is hardly︀ possible in europe
can you present other solutions that you're saying cost more?
Sorry I thought by "hold" you meant you already have the property and wanted to move it into an offshore structure. Purchasing property via an offshore company is totally different game. All EU registries will eventually be open and UBO known to all, just like the UK has currently.
Ok so you want to "buy" a property in Central/Western Europe and hide ownership. Do you intend to live or use the property or is it just somewhere to park cash?
Solution 1
I had a year back a client that bought a 1 bedroom flat for 2.6m in London. She was able to do so︀ as the property was owned by an offshore company already. The offshore company only did︁ a transfer of shares to her offshore company. She retained the corporate director and she︂ gave the UBO a brown bag. No changes are needed on the land register as︃ the corporate ownership remains the same. She however avoided paying SDLT but gets hits with︄ ATED annually. She will only then have to pay CGT if ownership changes from the︅ company to new buyer outside company structure. She can also choose to sell on the︆ structure. She is completely anonymous. Property taxes is an issue with Western Europe property ownership︇ and needs to be carefully financed.
If you have no specific property in mind then︈ best to see if you can find a property already held within a structure. ideally︉ choose a stable place outside the EU to buy property. The EU laws change too︊ often to make long term planning worthwhile.
Solution 2
Just setup an offshore foundation which︋ owns the property. A foundation has only a founder, council, private letter of wishes and︌ can opt for no beneficiaries. The founder can be a law firm or an offshore︍ company that donates the assets to the foundation - this can be done via a︎ back to back loan. The offshore company can then be dissolved immediately after this is️ done. You now have an orphaned foundation.
The foundation buys the property and viola you have ownership of the property. Your ownership will only be known to the foundation council via a secret letter of wishes. The letter of wishes is never made public. The letter can contain instructions on how to guide the council. Your name does not need to appear in the letter if you wish although the letter is completely private. You can be creative in how you deliver instructions to the foundation council via the letter of wishes ;-)
There is zero chance of them finding you if you just put︀ an anonymous or encrypted email address in the letter of wishes and ask the council︁ to accept instructions via that email ;-) Even if the letter of wishes is discovered︂ in a raid of the councils (csp/law firms) office they will only have an encrypted︃ email to go by.
Ok so you want to "buy" a property in Central/Western Europe and hide ownership. Do you intend to live or use the property or is it just somewhere to park cash?
Solution 1
I had a year back a client that bought a 1 bedroom flat for 2.6m in London. She was able to do so︀ as the property was owned by an offshore company already. The offshore company only did︁ a transfer of shares to her offshore company. She retained the corporate director and she︂ gave the UBO a brown bag. No changes are needed on the land register as︃ the corporate ownership remains the same. She however avoided paying SDLT but gets hits with︄ ATED annually. She will only then have to pay CGT if ownership changes from the︅ company to new buyer outside company structure. She can also choose to sell on the︆ structure. She is completely anonymous. Property taxes is an issue with Western Europe property ownership︇ and needs to be carefully financed.
If you have no specific property in mind then︈ best to see if you can find a property already held within a structure. ideally︉ choose a stable place outside the EU to buy property. The EU laws change too︊ often to make long term planning worthwhile.
Solution 2
Just setup an offshore foundation which︋ owns the property. A foundation has only a founder, council, private letter of wishes and︌ can opt for no beneficiaries. The founder can be a law firm or an offshore︍ company that donates the assets to the foundation - this can be done via a︎ back to back loan. The offshore company can then be dissolved immediately after this is️ done. You now have an orphaned foundation.
The foundation buys the property and viola you have ownership of the property. Your ownership will only be known to the foundation council via a secret letter of wishes. The letter of wishes is never made public. The letter can contain instructions on how to guide the council. Your name does not need to appear in the letter if you wish although the letter is completely private. You can be creative in how you deliver instructions to the foundation council via the letter of wishes ;-)
There is zero chance of them finding you if you just put︀ an anonymous or encrypted email address in the letter of wishes and ask the council︁ to accept instructions via that email ;-) Even if the letter of wishes is discovered︂ in a raid of the councils (csp/law firms) office they will only have an encrypted︃ email to go by.
Martin, first of all, I appreciate your effort and time spent with your last post.
As I already mentioned it's not about one single case but in general it's about parking idle cash using some reasonable instruments (typically with respect to good liquidity and high level of ownership protection). So it's not only about real estate but it's a conservative way how to achieve that so that's why I brought it up.
The solutions you suggested sound interesting however I've personally zero experience here. I don't for example understand who (in person) and how is taking care about the property (managing utilities and how are︀ they paid, necessary repairs, possible rental, insurance, regular property taxes).
Anyway I like the idea︁ of buying something already held by an offshore structure - it's similar to the solution︂ which is actually typically used in my country for holding expensive properties and avoiding taxes︃ connected with selling it - instead of selling the property you sell the company owning︄ it, so nothing happens in fact...
could you give me some examples of︆ countries you currently consider 'stable' for this purpose?
As I already mentioned it's not about one single case but in general it's about parking idle cash using some reasonable instruments (typically with respect to good liquidity and high level of ownership protection). So it's not only about real estate but it's a conservative way how to achieve that so that's why I brought it up.
The solutions you suggested sound interesting however I've personally zero experience here. I don't for example understand who (in person) and how is taking care about the property (managing utilities and how are︀ they paid, necessary repairs, possible rental, insurance, regular property taxes).
Anyway I like the idea︁ of buying something already held by an offshore structure - it's similar to the solution︂ which is actually typically used in my country for holding expensive properties and avoiding taxes︃ connected with selling it - instead of selling the property you sell the company owning︄ it, so nothing happens in fact...
could you give me some examples of︆ countries you currently consider 'stable' for this purpose?
The majority of high end real estate in West London is left empty. You simply use the services of a property management firm/real estate agent. There is one literally on every major high street in London. Personally I wouldn't go down the property route unless you are a Russian Oligarch with deep pockets.
In terms of parking cash high end London real estate is fairly liquid but perhaps consider other asset classes which are less consuming of effort or structuring ownership.
Stable countries outside EU but in Europe include Monaco, Andorra etc etc. Assets in those countries are safe.
In terms of parking cash high end London real estate is fairly liquid but perhaps consider other asset classes which are less consuming of effort or structuring ownership.
Stable countries outside EU but in Europe include Monaco, Andorra etc etc. Assets in those countries are safe.
could you please be more specific and give me some ideas of assets that are "expensive enough" to make this efficient and yet easier to handle and with good liquidity?
sorry again but could you be more specific where (speaking about privacy of buying and holding) are the main advantages of owning say a house in Liechtenstein or Andorra compared to for example Austria or Malta? Why EU matters so much?
sorry again but could you be more specific where (speaking about privacy of buying and holding) are the main advantages of owning say a house in Liechtenstein or Andorra compared to for example Austria or Malta? Why EU matters so much?
There is a limit to the amount of free info I can give out here. Seek professional financial planning and get a tailored solution for your needs 🙂
I respect that
thanks anyway - will get back to you directly once I have enough input from people on my side
thanks anyway - will get back to you directly once I have enough input from people on my side
Thanks
If you have time you can join the mentor group where I can give you specific detailed advice 🙂
If you have time you can join the mentor group where I can give you specific detailed advice 🙂
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